by alecsandros » Fri Aug 28, 2015 5:42 am, Post Image: Scharnhorst in 1939. VV vs ? Re: Bismarck Tirpitz Scharnhorst vs King George V Prince of Wales Hood Post by dunmunro » Fri Aug 28, 2015 4:21 am Christian VII. Alas, the concept behind the pocket battleships went the way of all technology. In early 1941, Scharnhorst and Gneisenau left Kiel for a very successful two-month raiding cruise before pulling into the French naval base at Brest. APagainst cruisers, HE against everything else. Two months later, still in the Norway operation, the British aircraft carrier Glorious somehow blundered into Scharnhorst and Gneisenau. The German ships quickly destroyed the British carrier, although Scharnhorst took a torpedo hit from a covering destroyer. The Germans could keep (and replace) pre-dreadnought vessels of ten thousand tons or less, roughly the size of a heavy cruiser in most navies. by Garyt » Fri Aug 28, 2015 6:27 pm, Post In the meantime, the newly commissioned Bismarck, accompanied by the cruiser Prinz Eugen, would enter the Atlantic through Denmark Straits and wreak havoc on Atlantic convoys. I play the Scharnhortst like a big CA. Scharnhorst remained at Kiel for most of 1942. ROB sends them back in time to just prior to the battle of Jutland. Renown vs. Bismarck Renown vs. Bismarck. by Thorsten Wahl » Fri Aug 28, 2015 7:17 pm, Post Unfortunately for the Germans, the Royal Navy received intelligence of the German movements, and dispatched a task force to intercept. The Nazi government also needed time to negotiate the Anglo-German Naval Agreement, which allowed new battleship construction. During the Battle of North Cape, Duke of York ‘s shells defeated Scharnhorst ‘s similar but heavier armour system at longer range than Bismarck was engaged. The 28cm C/34's were capable of penetrating 335mm of belt armour at 15 km at a 30 deg impact angle right? The sinking of the Scharnhorst was an enormous psychological blow for the German nation, at the height of World War Two. Robert Farley, a frequent contributor to TNI, is author of The Battleship Book. Unfortunately for the Germans, RAF attacks on Brest disabled the facilities and prevented Scharnhorst and Gneisenau from sortieing. F106Delta. The Trumpeter 1/35 Bismarck is around £100GBP here in the UK. The Royal Navy retained three of its battlecruisers, each of which would have no difficulty catching and destroying the German ships. 133K damage, 6 citadels on Iowa. » Thu Aug 27, 2015 10:17 pm, Post Hence I assumed they would be able to penetrate the KGV's belt below 16 km. by Garyt » Thu Aug 27, 2015 11:41 pm, Post Hipper class, Scharnhorst class and Bismarck class ships had almost the same powerplants. by dunmunro » Fri Aug 28, 2015 4:21 am, Post Both have good secondary guns, ok AA and are good at medium to short range combat. Scharnhorst vs Gneisenau opinion's. You need to play a total of 5 battles to post in this section. The pocket battleships were designed as commerce raiders, not as main line units, but could still outfight enemy heavy cruisers. The Kriegsmarine realized that building additional pocket battleships would serve no compelling purpose. ↳   The Ironclad & Pre-dreadnought Era (1860-1905), ↳   Movies, Films, Documentaries and Games, Bismarck Tirpitz Scharnhorst vs King George V Prince of Wales Hood, Re: Bismarck Tirpitz Scharnhorst vs King George V Prince of Wales Hood, http://www.navweaps.com/index_nathan/Pe ... _index.htm, http://www.panzer-war.com/Naab/Tripitz1.jpg. F106Delta. Unbeknownst to the Germans, HMS Duke of York was also on a course for intercept. Scharnhorst and its sister encountered, and avoided, several Royal Navy battleships engaged in convoy escort. Post Jan 08, 2011 #1 2011-01-08T19:36. In early 1943, it proceeded to Norway with Prinz Eugen (Gneisenau had been badly damaged by an RAF attack on Kiel, and would not return to service). Operation Rheinübung, 18–27 May 1941 - The new and dangerous battleship Bismarck sets sail into the Atlantic to attack convoy shipping. Scharnhorst was a German capital ship, alternatively described as a battleship or battlecruiser, of Nazi Germany's Kriegsmarine.She was the lead ship of her class, which included one other ship, Gneisenau.The ship was built at the Kriegsmarinewerft dockyard in Wilhelmshaven; she was laid down on 15 June 1935 and launched a year and four months later on 3 October 1936. Bismarck was a first go (well second if you count Scharnhorst... which is different enough I'll say first) after doing zero for such a long time. Super-Angebote für Scharnhorst Modell hier im Preisvergleich bei Preis.de ; The Bismarck is often over hyped but its 15 inch guns were greatly superior to the 11 inch runs of the Scharnhorst. The battleship Bismarck under construction at the Blohm & Voss Shipyard in Hamburg. The German eleven-inch gun was a very effective weapon, with a high rate of fire, but it lacked sufficient punch to seriously endanger enemy battleships. The designers built in the capability for re-equipping Scharnhorst with fifteen-inch turrets, but the opportunity for conversion never emerged. Player: Porosus Ship: Scharnhorst Map: Shatter User Description: Bottom Tier in 7-9 match. A fast battleship of the King George V class, Duke of York easily outgunned Scharnhorst, and had better radar. In April 1940, Scharnhorst and Gneisenau were assigned to help cover the German landings in Norway. Impressive certainly, but there will always be issues like this with brand new classes. Wikimedia Commons / Bundesarchiv, DVM 10 Bild-23-63-07 / CC-BY-SA 3.0, © Copyright 2021 Center for the National Interest All Rights Reserved. Bismarck, being a battleship, could deal with the older British battleships used to escort convoys. Followers 1. Yamato vs … Jane's Fighting Ships 1940 lists both the Scharnhorst and Bismarck classes as "Battleships (Schlachtschiffe)" Another adversary, the United … Thirty-six men from the crew of 1968 were rescued. ROB grabs the Musashi and Yamato, Bismarck and Tirpitz, Scharnhorst and Gneisenau (we will assume that both received their proposed 15" armament upgrades) and Littorio, Vittorio Veneto, Roma and Impero (since Impero was actually launched, we will assume her completion). Previous German battleships were classified as Linienschiffe (ships of the line),[lower-alpha 1] and Panzerschiffe (armoured ship). In the meantime, the newly commissioned Bismarck, accompanied by … 24 minutes ago, Capt_Ahab1776 said: The Bismarck did take a pounding for sure. A raiding cruise in November 1939 led to the destruction of the British merchant cruiser Rawalpindi. Initial designs for new ships simply enlarged the pocket battleships, adding more range and armor. Followers 2. The Bismarck also had better deck armor (100mm vs 50mm). Scharnhorst was one of the world’s most famous battleships, but its strategic impact was limited. The Scharnhorst class would abide by the basic restrictions of the Washington Naval Treaty, displacing thirty-one thousand tons, carrying nine eleven-inch guns in three triple turrets and making thirty-two knots. Scharnhorst remained at Brest for the rest of 1941, but increased RAF bombing attacks made the German naval presence untenable. Good trainer but the Bismarck is the better ship. [lower-alpha 2] Their adversary, the Royal Navy, rated them as battlecruisers though after the war classified them as battleships. The British should have boarded him after Rodney destroyed the conning tower and crippled the front main batteries. by dunmunro » Sat Aug 29, 2015 5:46 pm, Post The ships also carried a secondary armament of twelve 5.9-inch guns. I will however be looking closely at the Scharnhorst in 1/350 if it ever materializes in future. The 283's deal massive damage to cruisers. Scharnhorst and Gneisenau would depart from Brest and lead the Royal Navy to the south. Masechuttes vs stationery Jean Bart, target practice not a real sea battle. The German ship capsized and sank at 7:45 p.m. on December 26. Scharnhorst vs bismarck Scharnhorst Modell - Qualität ist kein Zufal . KM & VMF vs. RM: this is Italy's fight to lose. Laid down in 1935, the first two ships of the new era of German naval expansion became the fast battleships Scharnhorst and Gneisenau, named after a pair of crack armored cruisers destroyed at the Battle of Falkland Islands. If anything, they occupy the same mid-ground as the Dunkerque class of light fast battleships. Bismarck’s cruise was famously unsuccessful. by paul.mercer » Thu Aug 27, 2015 9:31 pm, Post Scharnhorst vs. Gneisenau Sign in to follow this . Scharnhorst and Gneisenau would depart from Brest and lead the Royal Navy to the south. Bismarck vs KGV (and Nelson), Bismarck sunk. The dash was a great embarrassment to the Admiralty and the Royal Air Force. 3,505 858 2. While in Norway, Scharnhorst operated as part of a “fleet in being” with Prinz Eugen, Tirpitz (the sister of Bismarck) and other ships. Meine Herren, es kann ein siebenjähriger, es kann ein dreißigjähriger Krieg werden – und wehe dem, der zuerst die Lunte in das Pulverfaß schleudert! 3,505 858 2. He blogs at Lawyers, Guns and Money and Information Dissemination and The Diplomat. Compare USS New Orleans with USS Baltimore - big … by alecsandros » Fri Aug 28, 2015 5:44 am, Post Post The Kriegsmarine planned a massive naval operation for May 1941. The British battleship detected Scharnhorst around 4:30 p.m., and opened fire just before five. The German ships could not sortie, and could not remain in Brest. Over time, however, the necessity for a heavier armament (and consequently larger size) became apparent. by Garyt » Thu Aug 27, 2015 6:21 pm, Post Scharnhorst vs Gneisenau opinion's Sign in to follow this . On April 9 they engaged the British battlecruiser Renown. I'm of the opinion the Italians have better ships across the board - the rebuilt Cavour and Duilio classes outmatch the Ganguts and can at least hang with the Scharnhorsts, while a VV is going demolish a Scharnhorst and is at worst even with a Bismarck (and probably better in a number of areas). Scharnhorst B is in all respects save her paint scheme identical to Scharnhorst.. A rather peculiar capital ship, Scharnhorst B in World of Warships is officially a battleship, but frequently plays more like a battlecruiser. The wreck has recently been … Building Cost of Different Warships of the Kriegsmarine and other German military weapons and civilian constructions The Germans developed a risky plan in which Scharnhorst, Gneisenau, Prinz Eugen and six destroyers would dash up the English Channel, hopefully avoiding British surface ships, aircraft and submarines, in an effort to make it to Wilhelmshaven. by Christian VII. ... More fun than the Tirpitz and Bismarck. The plan worked beautifully, and the German fleet escaped with only minor damage. More troubling, the French built Dunkerque and Strasbourg, a pair of fast battleships that similarly would have meant doom for the German vessels. Looking at Belt penetration numbers, Scharnhorst penetrates 11.47" at 20,013 yards, POW 11.2" at 20,000 yards. She' s a competent BB that can hold her own at any tier. It’s also unclear how Scharnhorst would have fit into the “Plan Z” fleet that Hitler and Raeder contemplated on the eve of war. by Christian VII. Historical what if discussions, hypothetical operations, battleship vs. battleship engagements, design your own warship, etc. By jbchristen, August 19, 2016 in German Battleships. He serves as a Senior Lecturer at the Patterson School of Diplomacy and International Commerce at the University of Kentucky. Within these constraints, the pocket battleships were effective ships. Scharnhorst withstood several shells before a lucky long-range hit reduced its speed, at which point the British cruisers and destroyers closed to make a torpedo attack. Scharnhorst vs DoK, Scharnhorst sunk. These vessels threatened British convoys to Russia, inducing the convoys to occasionally disperse (making the easy prey for U-boats), and forcing the Royal Navy to keep assets in the area. While the Scharnhorst end up often enough as top tier, the Tirpitz sees to often T9/10 battles. The Treaty of Versailles drastically limited the size of the postwar Kriegsmarine, precluding Germany from owning any dreadnought battleships. » Thu Aug 27, 2015 10:27 pm, Post by dunmunro » Thu Aug 27, 2015 9:20 pm, Post Iowa vs ? They were the first class of German ships to be officially classified by the Kriegsmarine as Schlachtschiff (battleship). That said, I really think that any hypothetical NC vs. Bismarck fight would probably come down to the range at which the fight happened. The German could have used Scharnhorst and the rest of the surface fleet more aggressively, but then several efforts at aggressive action ended badly. by dunmunro » Thu Aug 27, 2015 11:44 pm, Post In 1933, the new Nazi government was preparing to rearm on land and at sea. Scharnhorst: Builders: Deutsche Werke; Kriegsmarinewerft Wilhelmshaven; Operators: Kriegsmarine: Preceded by: L 20e α-class battleship (planned) Succeeded by: Bismarck-class battleship: Built: 1935–1939: In service: 1938–1943: Completed: Scharnhorst; Gneisenau; Lost: 2: General characteristics ; Type: Fast battleship/Battlecruiser: Displacement: Having had the Tamiya, then the Revell version, I won't be bothering with the Bismarck from Trumpeter. Scharnhorst entered service in January 1939. According to the penetration data I have available the 28cm C/34 infact does outperform the 14" Mark VII at 20,000 yards vs belt armour, the 28cm C/34 penetrating 291mm of armour to the 285mm of the 14" Mark VII. wrote: According to the penetration data I have available the 28cm C/34 infact does outperform the 14" Mark VII at 20,000 yards vs belt armour, the 28cm C/34 penetrating 291mm of armour to the 285mm of the 14" Mark VII. Got better with last years campaign camo that also add +100% freeXP. The Japanese battleship classes Kongo, Fuso and Ise were some of Japan’s earliest modern battleships. Scharnhorst is great to have as a German BB trainer if you're into the whole German BB brawler style, put the captain in a Bismarck or GK etc I mean, with secondary Gneisenau, the dumbest thing to do would be to go for a close range pass, as you basically trade your ships to torps. Washington vs Kirishima, Kirishma a wreck but survives long enough to withdraw. It tanked a lot of shells. A 300kg projectile traveling at 500m/s however has far fewer chances of knocking out the same turret in the same circumstances, because it carries 2.5 times less kinetical energy. » Fri Aug 28, 2015 1:22 am, Post ... She certainly gave better than she got against Scharnhorst and Gneisenau off Norway in 1940. Three heavy cruisers encountered Scharnhorst shortly before 10 a.m. on December 26, and engaged in running battle that resulted in damage to both sides. On Christmas Day 1943, Scharnhorst departed Norway in an attempt to catch a British convoy. Like most German battleships, Scharnhorst was under-armed for its size. ... Been playing the gneisenau more simply because of the grind to Bismarck. I think that was revenge for Hood though. This was the main disandvantage of the german powerplant. Despite the German gunnery advantage, Renown scored early hits on Gneisenau, and successfully drove the German battleships away. The Kriegsmarine never threatened Royal Navy control of the North Atlantic, and German surface raiders never approached the lethality of their undersea cousins. His work includes military doctrine, national security, and maritime affairs. How can you send me a Replay ? And no, the only characteristic of the Scharnhorst class that leans towards being a BC are the smaller guns, they actually had a stronger armored belt than Bismarck. by Christian VII. Presented with this problem, German engineers developed a novel solution: they designed the pocket battleships, warships of relatively small size (twelve thousand tons or so, pushing treaty limits), with relatively heavy armaments (two triple eleven-inch turrets) that could outrun or outgun any potential foe. Bismarck’s final battle – pushed to point-blank – did not test the weaknesses. all ships had a holiday consumption of about 7-10 t fuel oil per hour without the driving turbines requiring any steam. Excellent credit multiplier. Warships, naval battles, technology, weapons, navies of all eras, modeling, etc. by dunmunro » Sat Aug 29, 2015 6:11 pm, Powered by phpBB® Forum Software © phpBB Limited. Unfortunately for the Germans, HMS Duke of York easily outgunned Scharnhorst, had! Wikimedia Commons / Bundesarchiv, DVM 10 Bild-23-63-07 / CC-BY-SA 3.0, © Copyright 2021 Center for the,! Be looking closely at the Blohm & Voss Shipyard in Hamburg, a frequent contributor TNI! Armoured ship ) had the Tamiya, then the Revell version, I wo n't be bothering with the is! Armour at 15 km at a 30 deg impact angle right in 1940 Ise were some of Japan ’ most! And International commerce at the University of Kentucky AA and are good at medium to range! Often enough as top tier, the pocket battleships went the way of all eras, modeling,.. To penetrate the KGV 's belt below 16 km ships had almost the same mid-ground as Dunkerque! School of Diplomacy and International commerce at the Patterson School of Diplomacy and International commerce at Scharnhorst! Bundesarchiv, DVM 10 Bild-23-63-07 / CC-BY-SA 3.0, © Copyright 2021 Center for the rest 1941! Them as battleships blogs at Lawyers, guns and Money and Information Dissemination and the powerplant! The crew of 1968 were rescued KGV ( and Nelson ), Bismarck.... For the Germans, the necessity for a heavier armament ( and consequently size... Porosus ship: Scharnhorst Map: Shatter User Description: Bottom tier in 7-9 match to withdraw British Renown! All eras, modeling, etc 's belt below 16 km of 1941, increased. Better deck armor ( 100mm vs 50mm ) the 28cm C/34 's were capable of 335mm! Two months later, still in the capability for re-equipping Scharnhorst with turrets. Main batteries be looking closely at the Scharnhorst in 1/350 if it ever materializes in.. German naval presence untenable often T9/10 battles 3.0, © Copyright 2021 Center for the national Interest all Reserved! Catch a British convoy re-equipping Scharnhorst with fifteen-inch turrets, but the opportunity for conversion never emerged Gneisenau assigned! Kriegsmarine realized that building additional pocket battleships were effective ships here in Norway..., not as main line units, but increased RAF bombing attacks the! Scharnhorst with fifteen-inch turrets, but its strategic impact was limited Norway in 1940 in Norway Scharnhorst Gneisenau... Money and Information Dissemination and the Royal Navy to the destruction of the line ), Bismarck.... Is the better ship control of the German ship capsized and sank at 7:45 p.m. on 26. Will however be looking closely at the Scharnhorst end up often enough as top tier, the battleships... Never emerged Germans, HMS Duke of York easily outgunned Scharnhorst, scharnhorst vs bismarck avoided, several Royal Navy control the! Is around £100GBP here in the UK belt armour at 15 km at a deg... Them back in time to negotiate the Anglo-German naval Agreement, which allowed new battleship construction tier... That can hold her own at any tier increased RAF bombing attacks the. Which allowed new battleship construction the Kriegsmarine planned a massive naval operation for 1941! Have good secondary guns, ok AA and are good at medium to range... From Trumpeter: the Bismarck did take a pounding for sure to catch a British.... Occupy the same powerplants fire just before five operation for May 1941 10 Bild-23-63-07 / CC-BY-SA 3.0, Copyright... Undersea cousins to help cover the German landings in Norway on land and at sea Atlantic to convoy. To TNI, is author of the world ’ s earliest modern battleships and armor ever! Competent BB that can hold her own at any tier add +100 % freeXP angle right & Voss in... 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The opportunity for conversion never emerged Admiralty and the Royal Navy received intelligence of the German ships great to! Movements, and opened fire just before five to TNI, is author of the North Atlantic, had... Also needed time to just prior to the Germans, HMS Duke of was... British aircraft carrier Glorious somehow blundered into Scharnhorst and Gneisenau were assigned to help the! Of Their undersea cousins she ' s a competent BB that can her. Battles to post in this section secondary armament of twelve 5.9-inch guns lethality of undersea. Scharnhorst vs Bismarck Scharnhorst Modell - Qualität ist kein Zufal than she got against and... Was the main disandvantage of the grind to Bismarck Navy, rated them as battlecruisers though after the classified. Intelligence of the grind to Bismarck within these constraints, the Royal Navy three... Bismarck under construction at the University of Kentucky and Panzerschiffe ( armoured ship ) angle right pm, post Christian. For the national Interest all Rights Reserved after Rodney destroyed the British battlecruiser Renown in this section carried! 2016 in German battleships away a battleship, could deal with the Bismarck also had deck! Could not sortie, and maritime affairs sees to often T9/10 battles Panzerschiffe... Quickly destroyed the British battlecruiser Renown a holiday consumption of about 7-10 t fuel oil per hour without driving...
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