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Hi guys, this is my first post here, so please bear with me! I saw this guy on October 28th of this year at the Hopewell Marina, a little south of Richmond, VA. There have been sightings of a first winter Heermann's gull, so I went to try and find it. Unfortunately, when I got there it was starting to get dark (and thus bad lighting) and then it started to rain. I thought what I saw must have been the gull, but then looking back at other pictures people had taken, I think (?) that the bird I photographed (at least the one on the fence) looked more like a herring gull or possibly a second or third year, while other people had been talking about a first year. There was a sort of white triangle that could be seen on very clearly on the rump of the bird on the fence when flying (slightly visible in the picture), but I haven't been able to find good diagram containing that field mark to point me in a good direction. I also took some photos of a darker looking gull that was on the roof of a building when it started raining. Light was fading fast, so I'm not sure how helpful any of those photos will be. But any thoughts on either would be very appreciated! Ps. sorry that the pics are so terrible, I was borrowing a camera and was not at all used to it