Bobal27 Posted July 31, 2020 Share Posted July 31, 2020 Saw this in Richmond, Indiana, on Thursday, July 30th. It’s a bit rainy, and the plumage is a little more brown than it looks like in this image. We don’t often get black vultures here in East Central Indiana, but turkey vultures are common. This, however, clearly doesn’t have the signature redness to its head, and has darker brown to black body feathers. Have I found a cross species, possibly, or is this a known, similar bird? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colton V Posted July 31, 2020 Share Posted July 31, 2020 It might be a juvenile Turkey Vulture. It seems like they have gray heads: https://macaulaylibrary.org/asset/70987271 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colton V Posted July 31, 2020 Share Posted July 31, 2020 (edited) Actually I think it is a black vulture. Its head seems too dark to be young Turkey vulture, and it looks like it has some lighter colored wing feathers. https://macaulaylibrary.org/asset/64420881 Richmond, Indiana is slightly out of range for a black vulture, but not by much, so it doesn't seem impossible that it's a black vulture. (I'm no expert so I could be wrong) Edited July 31, 2020 by Colton V Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BlueJay Posted July 31, 2020 Share Posted July 31, 2020 When you zoom in you can see some redness on the head so I'm thinking turkey vulture. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phalarope713 Posted July 31, 2020 Share Posted July 31, 2020 This looks good for a Black Vulture. The reddish cast to the head appears to be an artifact of the photo. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bobal27 Posted July 31, 2020 Author Share Posted July 31, 2020 (edited) The reddish around the neck was not a photo artifact. That’s why I’ve been confused, it really looked like a mix of those two reference photos. Edited July 31, 2020 by Bobal27 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Connor Cochrane Posted July 31, 2020 Share Posted July 31, 2020 Just now, Bobal27 said: The reddish around the neck was not a photo artifact. That’s why I’ve been confused, it really looked like a mix. What if it’s a young bird transitioning to adult plumage. It would start to get some red on it’s head. Structure looks better for black though. Tail looks to short for Turkey. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bobal27 Posted July 31, 2020 Author Share Posted July 31, 2020 So, as I see it, so far, nobody is certain which it is. I did some research, and a certain vulture-banding ornithologist from Louisiana has caught (and presumably banded) what he claims was a cross between both species. Are there any experts around who can tell me if I’ve gotten the first photo of a cross-species vulture, or can point me in the direction of someone I can consult on the matter? To note: Mr. McIlhenny stated that it was caught by a trap that only black vultures visit, and exhibited many traits of both species otherwise. His article from 1937 can be found here: https://academic.oup.com/auk/article-abstract/54/3/384/5238309?redirectedFrom=PDF Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
akandula Posted July 31, 2020 Share Posted July 31, 2020 This is certainly a Black Vulture. It’s very compact with a relatively large head. Additionally, Turkey Vultures usually have some brown wearing on the wing feathers. The reddish color could be the retention of some juvenile downy feathers. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chaseman Posted July 31, 2020 Share Posted July 31, 2020 The white legs identify this as a Black Vulture. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bobal27 Posted July 31, 2020 Author Share Posted July 31, 2020 11 hours ago, akandula said: This is certainly a Black Vulture. It’s very compact with a relatively large head. Additionally, Turkey Vultures usually have some brown wearing on the wing feathers. The reddish color could be the retention of some juvenile downy feathers. There was definitely more of a brown color to the wing and body feathers, mixed in with the black. 9 hours ago, Chaseman said: The white legs identify this as a Black Vulture. According to the article I linked to, the bird he found had legs that were more turkey than Black, with the head being primarily Black, with some red. Its primaries were brown, with the remainder of its plumage being more that of a Black Vulture. Crosses between the two species have been found before, and can’t be identified by just the legs. I agree, though, that the legs are clearly those of a Black Vulture. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phalarope713 Posted August 1, 2020 Share Posted August 1, 2020 I wouldn’t hesitate calling this a Black Vulture. I’m not really seeing anything here to suggest a hybrid, but even if it was one, you’d probably need better documentation to confirm it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tony Leukering Posted August 1, 2020 Share Posted August 1, 2020 18 hours ago, Bobal27 said: To note: Mr. McIlhenny stated that it was caught by a trap that only black vultures visit, and exhibited many traits of both species otherwise. And for those that don't know, this is THE McIlhenny of Tobasco Sauce fame and fortune. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bobal27 Posted August 1, 2020 Author Share Posted August 1, 2020 1 hour ago, Phalarope713 said: I wouldn’t hesitate calling this a Black Vulture. I’m not really seeing anything here to suggest a hybrid, but even if it was one, you’d probably need better documentation to confirm it. Thank you, the “picture” I posted is actually a video, thanks to the quirks of my iPhone, so you guys can’t see the whiteness of the wing feathers to the underside, nor the brownness of the body feathers and wing tips. If you could see that, would that change your mind? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SirVive Posted August 1, 2020 Share Posted August 1, 2020 2 hours ago, Tony Leukering said: And for those that don't know, this is THE McIlhenny of Tobasco Sauce fame and fortune. I wonder if a diet of Tabasco sauce would cause even a Black Vulture to get red in the face ? 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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