Benjamin Posted September 2, 2020 Share Posted September 2, 2020 (edited) It's pretty clear at this point that OP is a troll. Completely ignoring users' helpful comments regarding ID and instead constantly trying to argue random and absurd points (claiming it's clearly a Stint, Sharp-tailed Sandpiper, etc.). All ID issues in the thread have been resolved, so where OP goes from here is solely his or her problem. If OP wants to believe (as a troll or not) that we're wrong, they are perfectly welcome to. Not really any point in continuing the discussion, though, as OP seems not to care about the guidance offered to him. I don't really understand the point of trolling a birding forum, but ok. Whatever floats your boat I guess. Edited September 2, 2020 by Benjamin Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Soohegan Posted September 3, 2020 Author Share Posted September 3, 2020 This was very difficult to figure out but: 1a. LOST left WHSA right 1b. Both LOST 2. All LOST 3a. Both LOST 3b. All LOST 4. LOST Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Soohegan Posted September 3, 2020 Author Share Posted September 3, 2020 2 minutes ago, Soohegan said: This was very difficult to figure out but: 1a. LOST left WHSA right 1b. Both LOST 2. All LOST 3a. Both LOST 3b. All LOST 4. LOST I guess it's technically LTST but it really should be LOST because these birds certainly are. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Soohegan Posted September 3, 2020 Author Share Posted September 3, 2020 10 hours ago, Benjamin said: It's pretty clear at this point that OP is a troll. Completely ignoring users' helpful comments regarding ID and instead constantly trying to argue random and absurd points (claiming it's clearly a Stint, Sharp-tailed Sandpiper, etc.). All ID issues in the thread have been resolved, so where OP goes from here is solely his or her problem. If OP wants to believe (as a troll or not) that we're wrong, they are perfectly welcome to. Not really any point in continuing the discussion, though, as OP seems not to care about the guidance offered to him. I don't really understand the point of trolling a birding forum, but ok. Whatever floats your boat I guess. Who's the troll? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Soohegan Posted September 3, 2020 Author Share Posted September 3, 2020 2 minutes ago, Soohegan said: I guess it's technically LTST but it really should be LOST because these birds certainly are. And it's WRSA not WHSA my bad. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Charlie Spencer Posted September 3, 2020 Share Posted September 3, 2020 If you're satisfied with those IDs, we'll consider these resolved and move on. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Melierax Posted September 3, 2020 Share Posted September 3, 2020 7 hours ago, Soohegan said: This was very difficult to figure out but: 1a. LOST left WHSA right 1b. Both LOST 2. All LOST 3a. Both LOST 3b. All LOST 4. LOST Why did you post here again? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Connor Cochrane Posted September 3, 2020 Share Posted September 3, 2020 (edited) Before this got crazy, we can rule out LTST that you originally thought a single bird was. First, note the bill. It’s all dark LTST at this time almost always have a pale base to the lower mandible. Back patterning is wrong as well, with it not being rufous enough and the individual feathers have the wrong pattern. All I ask for your own good, please don’t post this on eBird, or to a local bird email group etc. Your reputation as a birder could be ruined. If you find something rare in the future, not able to get photos, no one will believe you. Reputation is important in the birding community. If you keep reporting fake ratites, people will loose trust in you. Edited September 3, 2020 by Connor Cochrane 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Charlie Spencer Posted September 3, 2020 Share Posted September 3, 2020 5 hours ago, Charlie Spencer said: If you're satisfied with those IDs, we'll consider these resolved and move on. or not ... 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kevin Posted September 3, 2020 Share Posted September 3, 2020 This thread is as bad as "What the heck is this owl shaped bird". 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Soohegan Posted September 3, 2020 Author Share Posted September 3, 2020 2 hours ago, Connor Cochrane said: Before this got crazy, we can rule out LTST that you originally thought a single bird was. First, note the bill. It’s all dark LTST at this time almost always have a pale base to the lower mandible. Back patterning is wrong as well, with it not being rufous enough and the individual feathers have the wrong pattern. All I ask for your own good, please don’t post this on eBird, or to a local bird email group etc. Your reputation as a birder could be ruined. If you find something rare in the future, not able to get photos, no one will believe you. Reputation is important in the birding community. If you keep reporting fake ratites, people will loose trust in you. That's fine I should do more personal study and understand this all better. You don't have to answer me, and perhaps you know the explanation, but one of the things I'm going to try to figure out is: where is all of the rufous fringe that should be at least SOMEWHERE in the lower scapular area and especially the whole wing coverts area? There's no rufous there, just some creamy buff wash and significant areas of "white" fringes. Can be seen also in the crisp white outer tertial fringe. Its said that the head and face patterns are really the most reliable approach to identification of these, so perhaps this doesn't matter. So long - and thanks for all the fish... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Melierax Posted September 3, 2020 Share Posted September 3, 2020 (edited) Maybe I'm a simpleton, but I ID peeps by process of elimination. It has yellow legs - it's a LESA or PESA. It has a short all dark bill/it's small and round - must be a LESA. It has a longer pale based bill/it's chunky and larger than the other peeps - must be a PESA. There are innumerable plumage differences between them all so I stick with ID points that are pretty much always the same - bill and legs, wing extension, etc. I don't pretend to understand and know every plumage variation. Edited September 3, 2020 by Melierax 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Connor Cochrane Posted September 3, 2020 Share Posted September 3, 2020 None of us here are experts on stint ID, as most of us live in America. Probably 2/3 of the people where haven't even seen a stint. If you really think this could be a long-toed stint, I encourage you to go over to https://www.birdforum.net/forumdisplay.php?f=114. Most of the users there are based in Europe and most likely know a lot more about stint ID than us here. I would be interested to see their ideas on this bird. In my opinion the middle toe of that bird doesn't look long enough for long-toed in the most recent photo you have attached. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Soohegan Posted September 3, 2020 Author Share Posted September 3, 2020 (edited) 1 hour ago, Connor Cochrane said: None of us here are experts on stint ID, as most of us live in America. Probably 2/3 of the people where haven't even seen a stint. If you really think this could be a long-toed stint, I encourage you to go over to https://www.birdforum.net/forumdisplay.php?f=114. Most of the users there are based in Europe and most likely know a lot more about stint ID than us here. I would be interested to see their ideas on this bird. In my opinion the middle toe of that bird doesn't look long enough for long-toed in the most recent photo you have attached. Thanks. Regarding the toe length the people who found one in England said that it's not so much how the middle toe compares to the other toes - they instead compared the ratio between the middle toe and tarsus lengths, but ultimately said the ratios aren't reliably distinct from Least. Same with the "almost always" pale lower mandible - the confirmed Oregon bird showed a regular black bill. I've been doing this as more of an exercise of learning the systems and learning the LESA field markings; if I take a list of LTST distinguishing features and then look at some LESAs, that should be a great way for me to refine my recognition of LESA traits. The problem is many of those traits end up not carrying much weight, so it's seems subjective. I literally don't care if it's impossible that a LTST would be nearby; I thought that using LTST criteria to examine LESAs would enable me to fully support my LESA ID. How hard is it to justify a LESA ID when it's the only possibility? I'm putting pressure on the process to find out how reliable it is. I'm not "trying to prove it's a LTST", I'm trying to use LESA/LTST differentiators to make the ID - not LAT LONG. Anyway, cheers! Edited September 3, 2020 by Soohegan England not Oregon Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Charlie Spencer Posted September 3, 2020 Share Posted September 3, 2020 (edited) What puzzles us is why you'd start with a LTST as a basis for comparison to LESA. Is LTST a bird you're already familiar with? Are you a new arrival to the States? In that case, your approach makes a bit more sense. Otherwise, if you're not already familiar with LTST, it sounds like you're making this more difficult than it needs to be. Edited September 3, 2020 by Charlie Spencer Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Soohegan Posted September 3, 2020 Author Share Posted September 3, 2020 (edited) 18 minutes ago, Charlie Spencer said: What puzzles us is why you'd start with a LTST as a basis for comparison to LESA. Is LTST a bird you're already familiar with? Are you a new arrival to the States? In that case, your approach makes a bit more sense. Otherwise, if you're not already familiar with LTST, it sounds like you're making this more difficult than it needs to be. These birds looked overall different at a glance from the LESAs I had been observing daily. Simply the immediate, unprompted sense that they were different. The brown was different, and their feathers gave more of a coarse texture look. I wanted to find out why they looked different, and there are basically two options: LTST or some kind of LESA "color morph" or "type" or whatnot, but I haven't seen anything about these type of LESA variations. My goal was to explain my observation and not cheat by making any assumptions. One of the first pictures that I set aside when I first saw this flock was titled "LESA - very short very straight bill" as an example... Edited September 3, 2020 by Soohegan morph Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.