Colton V Posted October 3, 2020 Share Posted October 3, 2020 I have a weird question. I saw what I believe is a Dark-eyed Junco the other day in Portland, OR. It had a much lighter gray head than the Oregon juncos we usually get around here. Is this some kind of winter/molting plumage, subspecies, lighting illusion, or what? Sorry about the quality, hopefully you can still see it. This Junco: Normal Oregon Junco for reference: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colton V Posted October 3, 2020 Author Share Posted October 3, 2020 Wait... this is just a female, isn't it? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SirVive Posted October 3, 2020 Share Posted October 3, 2020 There are definitely other sub-species of junco and I believe some are possible in this area but definitely not the most common. Interested to see what others who know the different sub-sp say. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Melierax Posted October 3, 2020 Share Posted October 3, 2020 This would be a female Oregon. I would expect a pink-sided to be a lot lighter overall. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colton V Posted October 3, 2020 Author Share Posted October 3, 2020 36 minutes ago, Melierax said: This would be a female Oregon. I would expect a pink-sided to be a lot lighter overall. Ok, that’s what I suspected after further research. Somehow I’ve made it this long without seeing a female Junco! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tony Leukering Posted October 4, 2020 Share Posted October 4, 2020 (edited) There is plumage variation in Oregon Junco from four sources: subspecies, age, sex, individual. Your bird is almost certainly an immature, given the brown crown, but any certainty is ruled out by the quality of the photo. IMO, that photo quality also rules out being able to sex the bird if it is an immature. Oops. Forgot photo links. https://macaulaylibrary.org/asset/70632891#_ga=2.180465829.30951479.1599863273-1184313056.1549327880 https://macaulaylibrary.org/asset/115261751#_ga=2.180465829.30951479.1599863273-1184313056.1549327880 https://macaulaylibrary.org/asset/175859731#_ga=2.149151540.30951479.1599863273-1184313056.1549327880 Edited October 4, 2020 by Tony Leukering addition 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Melierax Posted October 4, 2020 Share Posted October 4, 2020 16 minutes ago, Tony Leukering said: There is plumage variation in Oregon Junco from four sources: subspecies, age, sex, individual. Your bird is almost certainly an immature, given the brown crown, but any certainty is ruled out by the quality of the photo. IMO, that photo quality also rules out being able to sex the bird if it is an immature. Oops. Forgot photo links. https://macaulaylibrary.org/asset/70632891#_ga=2.180465829.30951479.1599863273-1184313056.1549327880 https://macaulaylibrary.org/asset/115261751#_ga=2.180465829.30951479.1599863273-1184313056.1549327880 https://macaulaylibrary.org/asset/175859731#_ga=2.149151540.30951479.1599863273-1184313056.1549327880 I thought about adding that to my post that it's an immature, but I checked Sibley and it shows that the females also have brown crowns. I know that eye color is the other factor in determining age, but that isn't visible here. Is that true that adult females have brown crowns too? Or is it just that the immatures have a more extensive brown crown? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Charlie Spencer Posted October 4, 2020 Share Posted October 4, 2020 I didn't know DEJU had different plumages by sex until this discussion. All the Slate-coloreds (the only sub I've seen) in my yard appear identical. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colton V Posted October 4, 2020 Author Share Posted October 4, 2020 8 minutes ago, Charlie Spencer said: I didn't know DEJU had different plumages by sex until this discussion. Glad I'm not the only one Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jerry Friedman Posted October 4, 2020 Share Posted October 4, 2020 7 hours ago, Charlie Spencer said: I didn't know DEJU had different plumages by sex until this discussion. All the Slate-coloreds (the only sub I've seen) in my yard appear identical. You don't see some females that are lighter or browner than the mature males? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Charlie Spencer Posted October 4, 2020 Share Posted October 4, 2020 16 minutes ago, Jerry Friedman said: You don't see some females that are lighter or browner than the mature males? Not that I recall. If I did, they weren't different enough to keep me from questioning them as DEJUs. I'll look more closely this winter. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JP48 Posted October 5, 2020 Share Posted October 5, 2020 (edited) I casually watched DEJU for years before I realized that the males and females could be identified by shade of grey. Last winter, after reading some discussion on this forum, I noticed that even within the sexes there are variations in plumage (some have white on the wings, to varying degrees, but I don't think they could be called 'white-winged'). This winter I'm going to try to get pictures of what appear to be differences, so that I can get a better feel for what's there, and perhaps describe it to others. Edited October 5, 2020 by JP48 typo Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Charlie Spencer Posted October 5, 2020 Share Posted October 5, 2020 1 hour ago, JP48 said: (some have white on the wings, I've been attributing that to leucism. Maybe I've been taking too much about DEJUs for granted! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tony Leukering Posted October 5, 2020 Share Posted October 5, 2020 Some individuals of non-White-winged forms of Dark-eyed Junco show white wing bars to greater or lesser extent. Depending upon the subspecies group, the occurrence rate ranges from relatively frequent -- though still rare -- in Slate-colored to very rare -- as in, I've seen only one -- in Gray-headed/Red-backed. Slate-colored variation: Immature (possibly female) Immature (probably male) Adult female Adult male (note distinctly ill-defined, contrastingly black hood) There is also differential migration distance in the age-sex classes of juncos, with, in general, immatures traveling longer distances than adult females which travel longer distances than adult males. This means that those at near the northern edge of winter range are more likely to see a higher percentage of spanky-plumaged adult males, while those near the southern edge are likely to see a higher percentage of browner immatures. Finally, in the east, the southern Appalachians subspecies is an elevational migrant, which greatly confuses the situation of age-sex differential, as it's not very far in distance between the peak of Mt. Mitchell and much more clement winter habitat in the piedmont. https://bigbaldbanding.org/2012/07/31/amazing-junco-recap/ Southern Appalachians (click on Show Points Sooner box in right if it's not already clicked) 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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