tedsandyman Posted September 13, 2018 Share Posted September 13, 2018 I will withhold my own thoughts (and location of the bird) just to see what other people come up with. Thanks! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
psweet Posted September 13, 2018 Share Posted September 13, 2018 Very short dark area between the greater secondary coverts and the pale secondary edging suggests one of the Western Flycatcher complex. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tedsandyman Posted September 13, 2018 Author Share Posted September 13, 2018 (edited) That's a good point, but I don't think a small amount of dark on the secondary edging always rules out Yellow-bellied. For example, this picture https://macaulaylibrary.org/asset/101590971 (assuming it does represent a Yellow-bellied since it's on the Birds of NA site) shows a similar small amount of black on the secondaries. Edited September 13, 2018 by tedsandyman Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tedsandyman Posted September 13, 2018 Author Share Posted September 13, 2018 Another example is https://macaulaylibrary.org/asset/71786971 I can't see a huge difference between that and the second shot above (though admittedly my eye sight isn't the best). I would think a lot of dark would generally rule out a Western though... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
akiley Posted September 13, 2018 Share Posted September 13, 2018 (edited) Where was this seen? That would help narrow down options. Edited September 13, 2018 by akiley Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tedsandyman Posted September 14, 2018 Author Share Posted September 14, 2018 It was seen in California, so Yellow-bellied would be very rare. I have seen quite a few Pacific-slope Flycatchers, but this one 'felt' different and made me interested enough to take a lot of pictures, so maybe that is worth something. I found a great reference for telling the two apart, but I still don't feel fully convinced one way or another. https://www.birdpop.org/docs/pubs/Heindel_and_Pyle_1999_Identifcation_of_YBFL_and_WEFL.pdf Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
psweet Posted September 14, 2018 Share Posted September 14, 2018 The field mark I was referring to was published just a few years ago, by a group in California that looked at a lot of specimens around the country. They found one "Yellow-bellied" in the Field Museum collection, found dead in Chicago a few years ago, that turned out to be a Western-type (most likely Pac-slope, I believe, based on DNA). That's a specimen lying in a museum drawer -- Empids often are that hard to ID! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tony Leukering Posted September 24, 2018 Share Posted September 24, 2018 On 9/14/2018 at 5:38 PM, psweet said: The field mark I was referring to was published just a few years ago, by a group in California that looked at a lot of specimens around the country. They found one "Yellow-bellied" in the Field Museum collection, found dead in Chicago a few years ago, that turned out to be a Western-type (most likely Pac-slope, I believe, based on DNA). That's a specimen lying in a museum drawer -- Empids often are that hard to ID! Actually, the authors are from New Mexico. At least, Baumann and Witt are; I don't know the other two. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tedsandyman Posted September 24, 2018 Author Share Posted September 24, 2018 (edited) On 9/14/2018 at 4:38 PM, psweet said: The field mark I was referring to was published just a few years ago, by a group in California that looked at a lot of specimens around the country. They found one "Yellow-bellied" in the Field Museum collection, found dead in Chicago a few years ago, that turned out to be a Western-type (most likely Pac-slope, I believe, based on DNA). That's a specimen lying in a museum drawer -- Empids often are that hard to ID! Yeah, that's a little discouraging. Good thing trying to ID birds is a pretty enjoyable preoccupation anyway (most of the time!) One interesting thing from the article I linked was the explanation of wing morphology to separate the Yellow-bellied & Western flycatchers. That said, I'm not entirely sure if I understand how to tell if the last wing tips shown in my photos above are p8-7, with a slight space, or if p8 is hidden 'stacked' under p7. It seems particularly hard to know as it sounds like p9 (and p10?) are shorter than the rest and entirely hidden, so it's not possible to "count backwards". Edited September 24, 2018 by tedsandyman Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tedsandyman Posted September 24, 2018 Author Share Posted September 24, 2018 (Though counting backwards from 10 wouldn't be useful unless you knew all the primaries were different lengths / exposed...) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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