RTH but, why?

[floraphile 174]

Aug 2016 Arnold Arboretum, Boston, MA

This was previously ID'd as a Red-Tailed Hawk, and I'm interested in what field marks could have been used, particularly if each photo is analyzed on its own to ID.  

1.  Enough to be considered a dark patagial mark?  Other field marks? 

2.  White doesn't really look like a V, but, is this acceptable for RTH ID?  Other field marks?

3.  Belly band (I know not diagnostic on its own) and chunkiness to the boi enough?  Other field marks?

  

Edited November 29, 2020 by floraphile
typo

[Kevin 3,386]

I would say it is a Red-tailed Hawk because it's parents were Red-tailed hawks.

Seriously though the very strong belly band is a good clue.

[DLecy 300]

 

6 minutes ago, Kevin said:

I would say it is a Red-tailed Hawk because it's parents were Red-tailed hawks.

Seriously though the very strong belly band is a good clue.

From Birds of the World - "A dark belly band, present in most Red-tails, is not sufficient for species identification."

Eastern RTHA often have very faint/light patagials. They are the only raptor in N.A. with light underwings and patagial markings...so that may help. 

Can be eliminated form other raptors by a few other ID marks as well, but that is generally when the bird is seen/photographed well.

[floraphile 174]

11 minutes ago, DLecy said:

 

From Birds of the World - "A dark belly band, present in most Red-tails, is not sufficient for species identification."

Eastern RTHA often have very faint/light patagials. They are the only raptor in N.A. with light underwings and patagial markings...so that may help. 

Can be eliminated form other raptors by a few other ID marks as well, but that is generally when the bird is seen/photographed well.

As noted in my original post--I know a belly band not sufficient & about the patagials.  But, what are those eliminating ID marks?  @DLecy

Edited November 29, 2020 by floraphile

[AlexHenry 1,268]

What else could they possibly be? Red-tailed Hawk is the only buteo possible there, except for Broad-winged Hawk or Red-shouldered Hawk, which they are not

[floraphile 174]

3 minutes ago, AlexHenry said:

What else could they possibly be? Red-tailed Hawk is the only buteo possible there, except for Broad-winged Hawk or Red-shouldered Hawk, which they are not

Good point.  I was relying strictly on morphology.

[DLecy 300]

RLHA and FEHA have completely feathered tarsi, whereas RTHA has feathering on half of the tarsi. SWHA have 3 notched primaries, whereas RTHA have 4. If you saw the bird in flight, shape and structure help too.

As @AlexHenry said, what else were you thinking/could it be?

And once you have seen enough RTHA, you'll know when you see a RTHA. It's like picking out a well-known relative amongst a crowd of strangers, at some point it just becomes intuitive.

[floraphile 174]

I wasn't thinking anything else it could be-I'm learning and wanted to know how seasoned birders would ID.    

[AlexHenry 1,268]

57 minutes ago, floraphile said:

I wasn't thinking anything else it could be-I'm learning and wanted to know how seasoned birders would ID.    

I would ID it like this - it’s a buteo and by location, date, and appearance it can’t be anything except Red-tail

[floraphile 174]

Just now, AlexHenry said:

I would ID it like this - it’s a buteo and by location, date, and appearance it can’t be anything except Red-tail

Thank you!

[AlexHenry 1,268]

2 minutes ago, floraphile said:

Thank you!

When all other options can be ruled out that only leaves one option

Edited November 29, 2020 by AlexHenry

[Tony Leukering 2,280]

7 hours ago, Kevin said:

Red-tailed Hawk because it's parents were Red-tailed hawks

That's my line!

6 hours ago, floraphile said:

I wasn't thinking anything else it could be-I'm learning and wanted to know how seasoned birders would ID.    

Highly skilled birders don't ID species with which they're familiar; they recognize them. That process uses a very different part of the brain than ID.

In August in MA, once you get to Buteo (and there really isn't a reasonable option other than that genus for these birds), then you're dealing with BW, RS, and RT. RS never shows a distinct belly band. If it doesn't have streaking over most of the underparts, its streaking will be restricted to the chest. BW only very rarely shows anything like a belly band, but even then, it's vague. Tail banding is different on the three species and is a very ID-useful character.

[floraphile 174]

35 minutes ago, Tony Leukering said:

That's my line!

Highly skilled birders don't ID species with which they're familiar; they recognize them. That process uses a very different part of the brain than ID.

In August in MA, once you get to Buteo (and there really isn't a reasonable option other than that genus for these birds), then you're dealing with BW, RS, and RT. RS never shows a distinct belly band. If it doesn't have streaking over most of the underparts, its streaking will be restricted to the chest. BW only very rarely shows anything like a belly band, but even then, it's vague. Tail banding is different on the three species and is a very ID-useful character.

Lol.  That is your line, @Tony Leukering!  I'm trying to transition from ID to recognition.  I'm just a young grasshopper (in birding--not chronological--years). 

Edited November 30, 2020 by floraphile

[Kevin 3,386]

51 minutes ago, Tony Leukering said:

That's my line!

I wasn't sure you were going to be around to use, it so I did it for you.

Edited November 30, 2020 by Kevin

[DLecy 300]

7 hours ago, AlexHenry said:

I would ID it like this - it’s a buteo and by location, date, and appearance it can’t be anything except Red-tail

Bet.

I think I may have confused some talking by about both ID features and recognition.  @AlexHenry was on point here and more straightforward.

[DLecy 300]

"by talking," not talking by. 🤔