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Hello and a hybrid question


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These pictures are lousy and wont do this bird justice. This is from January 2018 here in Arkansas... not that the location matters for this particular bird. 🙂  
I wish I had a better camera at the time as this really was a magnificent bird. You might be able to tell in one picture, where it's swimming with mallards, that it is teal sized. The color of the bird sure looked perfect for cinnamon teal in the field. In the lousy pictures... my daughter thinks it's too dark for cinnamon teal but that doesn't give us any other possibilities. It looks like I see some white hear the bill which would steer away from cinnamon but...  it's really too dark to be blue-winged.
And it had a nice bright green mallard head...  The bill is half mallard colored half teal color...  (I keep thinking about domestics but can't think of any that it really would look like as far as size and form)
I'm still leaning towards cinnamon teal x mallard but I'm not sure it's perfect for it. Again, the pictures do not do the bird justice. Let me know what you think...  
I was excited because I tried looking up such a hybrid online to show my kids but, I didn't find a single one. 
I want to show this to my state reviewer but he doesn't take me very seriously as a birder so I haven't been reaching out to him as often lately... 😞

2130366193_Screenshot2020-11-30at6_26_35PM.thumb.png.c07e90423d4225e7d90510b95ff7d9c1.png610685051_Screenshot2020-11-30at6_26_54PM.png.446886f7a4c42b83b4f7b00ce55f5eab.png517312215_Screenshot2020-11-30at6_27_47PM.png.42762d7e2f23ba4dbf8b25738adf474f.png1038005462_Screenshot2020-11-30at6_28_19PM.png.d9b8a435f2fe5cadb9d998bd03ffa64d.png

 

Side question... how active is the forum compared to the FB page? I see people post on FB a LOT but, I also see a lot of ID's given by people that don't know their birds. 

In case anyone asks... (i'm somewhat of an open book... too much so sometimes) where I've been???
It's a LONG story but I spent almost a month living in a hotel, going through a separation(or divorce, I'm not even sure) and custody etc... I am in my house and have primary custody of the kids which is awesome... but it still limits the time I have with them so I don't get out birding as much and my time on the internet... well, I'm still on a lot but my computer is "missing" so I'm on a chromebook that I don't like...  and I end up having a LOT of other stuff to do so I have forgotten about this place for a while.
Another side note...  anyone with reliable transportation want to drive me to the other side of Arkansas to chase the fork-tailed flycatcher that's been there a while now? I have a feeling if I ever drive that far the bird will be gone... it's about 5 or so hours from here.
phew... long enough for now.
Let me know what you think about this duck.

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I've been bothered by that white patch a little... has me almost wondering about a bwte x cite x mall...  as in one hybrid hybridizing with another bird. It's curious for sure.
The color seemed wrong to just be bwte though. Even in these pictures it's dark but, I really remember that day watching the bird, it was definitely cinnamon teal colored.
I REALLY wish I had a better camera back then. I'm getting a new camera soon, I think.. can't wait.

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I think it’s safe to assume that this duck is not the son of a hybrid. Hybrids are rare enough as it is and the majority of the time they are infertile. Even if they’re not you could assume they’re not as attractive to mates or rather don’t know how to attract mates due to sharing a combination of genes. Though mallards can create fertile offspring with closely related species like the american black duck.

Don’t know much on how to ID hybrids, but this duck looks far too dark to be a child of any of the smaller wild ducks. I’m feeling some sort of domestic genes are at play here but that’s just a guess. Wouldn’t we see a different shaped/sized bill if this was a cross with cinnamon? 

It’s body colour almost reminds me of a ruddy duck. 

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2 hours ago, MichaelLong said:

Maybe BWTE x MALL? I see a light patch near the bill

Is this a known hybrid? I haven't heard of it before.

 

16 minutes ago, Aaron said:

Don’t know much on how to ID hybrids, but this duck looks far too dark to be a child of any of the smaller wild ducks. I’m feeling some sort of domestic genes are at play here but that’s just a guess. Wouldn’t we see a different shaped/sized bill if this was a cross with cinnamon? 

GWTE x MALL is a known hybrid that can create facial patterns similar to this bird. But I agree that the darkness overall of the duck is problematic. Maybe some domestic genes on the MALL side of things if it is a GWTE x MALL?

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Has anyone else mentioned the curly tail feathers?  Wouldn't that indicate a Mallard's genetic contribution?

I can't speak to Facebook; I'm too concerned about my personal data to sign up.  I can tell you that this place is far more active than BirdForum in terms of US participation.

Sorry to hear about your household issues.

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12 minutes ago, Charlie Spencer said:

Has anyone else mentioned the curly tail feathers?  Wouldn't that indicate a Mallard's genetic contribution?

 

That and the green face were why I said mallard was in its genes, I just didn’t say it, in case I was wrong 😉 

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17 hours ago, millipede said:

In case anyone asks... (i'm somewhat of an open book... too much so sometimes) where I've been???
It's a LONG story but I spent almost a month living in a hotel, going through a separation(or divorce, I'm not even sure) and custody etc... I am in my house and have primary custody of the kids which is awesome... but it still limits the time I have with them so I don't get out birding as much and my time on the internet... well, I'm still on a lot but my computer is "missing" so I'm on a chromebook that I don't like...  and I end up having a LOT of other stuff to do so I have forgotten about this place for a while.
Another side note...  anyone with reliable transportation want to drive me to the other side of Arkansas to chase the fork-tailed flycatcher that's been there a while now? I have a feeling if I ever drive that far the bird will be gone... it's about 5 or so hours from here.
phew... long enough for now.
Let me know what you think about this duck.

(Mod edit for forum rules violations) I'm sorry.

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15 hours ago, millipede said:

These pictures are lousy and wont do this bird justice. This is from January 2018 here in Arkansas... not that the location matters for this particular bird. 🙂  
I wish I had a better camera at the time as this really was a magnificent bird. You might be able to tell in one picture, where it's swimming with mallards, that it is teal sized. The color of the bird sure looked perfect for cinnamon teal in the field. In the lousy pictures... my daughter thinks it's too dark for cinnamon teal but that doesn't give us any other possibilities. It looks like I see some white hear the bill which would steer away from cinnamon but...  it's really too dark to be blue-winged.
And it had a nice bright green mallard head...  The bill is half mallard colored half teal color...  (I keep thinking about domestics but can't think of any that it really would look like as far as size and form)
I'm still leaning towards cinnamon teal x mallard but I'm not sure it's perfect for it. Again, the pictures do not do the bird justice. Let me know what you think...  
I was excited because I tried looking up such a hybrid online to show my kids but, I didn't find a single one. 
I want to show this to my state reviewer but he doesn't take me very seriously as a birder so I haven't been reaching out to him as often lately... 😞

2130366193_Screenshot2020-11-30at6_26_35PM.thumb.png.c07e90423d4225e7d90510b95ff7d9c1.png610685051_Screenshot2020-11-30at6_26_54PM.png.446886f7a4c42b83b4f7b00ce55f5eab.png517312215_Screenshot2020-11-30at6_27_47PM.png.42762d7e2f23ba4dbf8b25738adf474f.png1038005462_Screenshot2020-11-30at6_28_19PM.png.d9b8a435f2fe5cadb9d998bd03ffa64d.png

 

Side question... how active is the forum compared to the FB page? I see people post on FB a LOT but, I also see a lot of ID's given by people that don't know their birds. 

In case anyone asks... (i'm somewhat of an open book... too much so sometimes) where I've been???
It's a LONG story but I spent almost a month living in a hotel, going through a separation(or divorce, I'm not even sure) and custody etc... I am in my house and have primary custody of the kids which is awesome... but it still limits the time I have with them so I don't get out birding as much and my time on the internet... well, I'm still on a lot but my computer is "missing" so I'm on a chromebook that I don't like...  and I end up having a LOT of other stuff to do so I have forgotten about this place for a while.
Another side note...  anyone with reliable transportation want to drive me to the other side of Arkansas to chase the fork-tailed flycatcher that's been there a while now? I have a feeling if I ever drive that far the bird will be gone... it's about 5 or so hours from here.
phew... long enough for now.
Let me know what you think about this duck.

I think the two ones in the middle are Mallards, based on the coloring. And the hybird has a curly tail, which is what mallard hybirds are... So it has to be a Mallard Hybird...

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1 hour ago, birdiy29712 said:

This looks similar to a Cayuga duck? There are different variations of color so i would suggest it as an option. 

Welcome to Whatbird!

What a great first post.  I think we have a winner.

https://www.google.com/search?q=cayuga+duck&safe=active&source=lnms&tbm=isch&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwjB4v3foq3tAhWD_KQKHWrYCFIQ_AUoAXoECA8QAw&biw=1467&bih=999

Edited by Charlie Spencer
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2 hours ago, Charlie Spencer said:

What a great first post.  I think we have a winner.

Now wait a minute mr sox fox...

No... cayuga are larger ducks and the color of the body and bill aren't quite right. 
I wish I knew how to contact a guy I knew from an old poutry forum years back... he created his own duck breed and was REALLY good at duck genetics and could give some really educated thoughts on this bird.
The color... it is dark here... I'm telling you, in the field that day it was good for cinnamon teal color on the body... it was a striking bird. 
Not saying it HAS to be CITE at all... just, that the color doesn't represent what was seen.

And Benjamin... yeah, it's been a LONG year... August was the worst having a false order of protection filed, ending up without a home or car, having my 19 year old kicked out a week later then having to stay with me at a hotel, a birthday(I don't like aging), then our 20th anniversary, then court...  The worst is behind... the present is so so... but it's better and could be worse. I've had support from family and friends... got a dirt cheap($700) car 2nd day out of the house, I'm back in the house, and on and on. Depending on which side of the coin I choose to look at today, life is good. And there's always birding...  First mississippi kite I saw all year was when I was walking because I had no car... I wouldn't have seen it otherwise. ha.  
I'm not entirely sure my current vehicle will make it the 5 or so hours to chase a fork-tailed flycatcher but I'm working on another vehicle... we'll see.
And I'm rambling...  I do that. Perhaps 20 years is a long time to live with me. HA.  
Anyway... thanks for the thoughts on the bird so far. I wish I had a better camera back then and had better pictures. It really was a striking bird, no matter what it is.

Oh... so, the bird is small... teal sized...  it was significantly smaller than the mallards... so, either it has some form of teal lineage or, call duck(domestic).  I'm not convinced of that but, I really can't say at this point. 
It's interesting to see someone say that a 2nd generation hybrid isn't likely...  but would like to add to that, anything is possible. 
HOPEFULLY the next time I have confusing birds to get IDs for I'll have better photos... I'm getting a new camera soon... canon rebel t7 and hopefully I can use it well enough to get better pictures than the point and shoots I'm used to. We'll see.

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