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Oregon Junco or cismontanus? - SW MI 1/3-1/4


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22 minutes ago, chipperatl said:

I was thinking cismontanus, but I remember they usually have darker sides, not the buffy like this bird.

Not an expert, but I'd call that an Oregon all day.  Cismontanus should have some Slate-colored characteristics, classically gray instead of brown flanks, as you said.

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Are these all the same bird? The third bird looks different than the others to me and could have some SCJU characteristics with the hint of darker flanks and the darkness of the breast bleeding bit into the sides. It may be well within the range of an immature female ORJU, but you could always safely eBird it as Dark-eyed Junco, and not put it to ssp.

6 hours ago, Jefferson Shank said:

How do you rule out Pink-sided? They bird above looks identical to the Pink-sided  See these pictures:  Oregon vs Pink-sided or even an Oregon x Pink-sided

As others have pointed out, Pink-sided have pink/cinnamon that extends far down the sides of the flanks and the breast which almost meets in the center of the belly and gives the bird a decidedly pink-bellied look. 

Additionally, Pink-sided are noticeably larger than Oregons in the field, have a more singularly light gray head, and contrastingly dark lores. 

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9 hours ago, DLecy said:

Are these all the same bird? The third bird looks different than the others to me and could have some SCJU characteristics with the hint of darker flanks and the darkness of the breast bleeding bit into the sides. It may be well within the range of an immature female ORJU, but you could always safely eBird it as Dark-eyed Junco, and not put it to ssp.

 

Cannot guarantee those aren't not different birds.  The third photo was taken on the 3rd, the others on the 4th.  I assumed it was just me thinking there were some slight differences, or lighting involved.  

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1 hour ago, chipperatl said:

Cannot guarantee those aren't not different birds.  The third photo was taken on the 3rd, the others on the 4th.  I assumed it was just me thinking there were some slight differences, or lighting involved.  

Ah, got it. I would say pretty definitively that the third bird is a different bird. I would be comfortable calling the other ones Oregon group Dark-eyed Juncos, and the third bird is likely an immature female ORJU, but could be conservatively ID'ed without naming to subspecies if you wanted. Juncos are fun to study! 

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On 1/5/2021 at 9:53 AM, DLecy said:

 Juncos are fun to study! 

Yep, I have one with very clear "White-winged" like tips hanging around.  It doesn't look bigger than the others, but they are the most white I've seen on the Slate-coloreds around here.  It also has buffy wash mixed in with the grey on the flanks.  I'm assuming a first year bird hanging on to a little brown still.  Odd transition I've not seen before.  

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17 hours ago, chipperatl said:

Yep, I have one with very clear "White-winged" like tips hanging around.  It doesn't look bigger than the others, but they are the most white I've seen on the Slate-coloreds around here.  It also has buffy wash mixed in with the grey on the flanks.  I'm assuming a first year bird hanging on to a little brown still.  Odd transition I've not seen before.  

I saw a “white-winged” SCJU at my house not too long ago! Sibley says that variant is around 1 in 200 

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5 hours ago, Avery said:

I saw a “white-winged” SCJU at my house not too long ago! Sibley says that variant is around 1 in 200 

I’ve had 3 or 4 in the past 3 winters.  One I was close to submitting to MBRC, as it has significant white tail feathers also.  INaturalist has confirmations on it, but I reached out to Ted Floyd and David Sibley and they said no dice.  

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4 hours ago, chipperatl said:

I’ve had 3 or 4 in the past 3 winters.  One I was close to submitting to MBRC, as it has significant white tail feathers also.  INaturalist has confirmations on it, but I reached out to Ted Floyd and David Sibley and they said no dice.  

You can "reach out" to Ted Floyd and David Sibley?! Who are you?

Care to share those photos of the controversial WWJU? I'd love to see 'em.

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On 1/4/2021 at 9:57 PM, DLecy said:

Are these all the same bird? The third bird looks different than the others to me and could have some SCJU characteristics with the hint of darker flanks and the darkness of the breast bleeding bit into the sides. It may be well within the range of an immature female ORJU, but you could always safely eBird it as Dark-eyed Junco, and not put it to ssp.

As others have pointed out, Pink-sided have pink/cinnamon that extends far down the sides of the flanks and the breast which almost meets in the center of the belly and gives the bird a decidedly pink-bellied look. 

Additionally, Pink-sided are noticeably larger than Oregons in the field, have a more singularly light gray head, and contrastingly dark lores. 

And a LOT more white in the tail

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22 hours ago, DLecy said:

You can "reach out" to Ted Floyd and David Sibley?! Who are you?

Care to share those photos of the controversial WWJU? I'd love to see 'em.

Emails are available via ABA site and Sibley’s site.  Trust me I was surprised they answered.  
 

 

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