chipperatl 681 Posted January 4 Share Posted January 4 I was thinking cismontanus, but I remember they usually have darker sides, not the buffy like this bird. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
AlexHenry 1,814 Posted January 4 Share Posted January 4 I’d say Oregon but I’m no expert on junco subspecies, maybe @Connor Cochrane or @DLecy can share their thoughts. 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Jerry Friedman 679 Posted January 4 Share Posted January 4 22 minutes ago, chipperatl said: I was thinking cismontanus, but I remember they usually have darker sides, not the buffy like this bird. Not an expert, but I'd call that an Oregon all day. Cismontanus should have some Slate-colored characteristics, classically gray instead of brown flanks, as you said. 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Connor Cochrane 3,343 Posted January 4 Share Posted January 4 I agree, if I saw this here I would call this an Oregon without hesitation. 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Jefferson Shank 2,675 Posted January 4 Share Posted January 4 How do you rule out Pink-sided? They bird above looks identical to the Pink-sided See these pictures: Oregon vs Pink-sided or even an Oregon x Pink-sided 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
MichaelLong 497 Posted January 4 Share Posted January 4 the pink sides should nearly meet I think 2 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Jerry Friedman 679 Posted January 4 Share Posted January 4 50 minutes ago, MichaelLong said: the pink sides should nearly meet I think Also they're usually pinker (though not in the one @Jefferson Shank linked to, as far as I can tell). And I think it would be nice for the hood to be lighter and bluer. As for intergrades, *throws up hands in despair* 1 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
DLecy 902 Posted January 5 Share Posted January 5 Are these all the same bird? The third bird looks different than the others to me and could have some SCJU characteristics with the hint of darker flanks and the darkness of the breast bleeding bit into the sides. It may be well within the range of an immature female ORJU, but you could always safely eBird it as Dark-eyed Junco, and not put it to ssp. 6 hours ago, Jefferson Shank said: How do you rule out Pink-sided? They bird above looks identical to the Pink-sided See these pictures: Oregon vs Pink-sided or even an Oregon x Pink-sided As others have pointed out, Pink-sided have pink/cinnamon that extends far down the sides of the flanks and the breast which almost meets in the center of the belly and gives the bird a decidedly pink-bellied look. Additionally, Pink-sided are noticeably larger than Oregons in the field, have a more singularly light gray head, and contrastingly dark lores. 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
chipperatl 681 Posted January 5 Author Share Posted January 5 9 hours ago, DLecy said: Are these all the same bird? The third bird looks different than the others to me and could have some SCJU characteristics with the hint of darker flanks and the darkness of the breast bleeding bit into the sides. It may be well within the range of an immature female ORJU, but you could always safely eBird it as Dark-eyed Junco, and not put it to ssp. Cannot guarantee those aren't not different birds. The third photo was taken on the 3rd, the others on the 4th. I assumed it was just me thinking there were some slight differences, or lighting involved. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
DLecy 902 Posted January 5 Share Posted January 5 1 hour ago, chipperatl said: Cannot guarantee those aren't not different birds. The third photo was taken on the 3rd, the others on the 4th. I assumed it was just me thinking there were some slight differences, or lighting involved. Ah, got it. I would say pretty definitively that the third bird is a different bird. I would be comfortable calling the other ones Oregon group Dark-eyed Juncos, and the third bird is likely an immature female ORJU, but could be conservatively ID'ed without naming to subspecies if you wanted. Juncos are fun to study! 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
chipperatl 681 Posted January 8 Author Share Posted January 8 I think I got both birds in one shot, although not the greatest side by side. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Jefferson Shank 2,675 Posted January 8 Share Posted January 8 I think I got both birds in one shot, although not the greatest side by side. Looks like Oregon and Slate-colored here. 1 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
chipperatl 681 Posted January 9 Author Share Posted January 9 4 hours ago, Jefferson Shank said: Looks like Oregon and Slate-colored here. They both have definitive grey hoods. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
chipperatl 681 Posted January 9 Author Share Posted January 9 On 1/5/2021 at 9:53 AM, DLecy said: Juncos are fun to study! Yep, I have one with very clear "White-winged" like tips hanging around. It doesn't look bigger than the others, but they are the most white I've seen on the Slate-coloreds around here. It also has buffy wash mixed in with the grey on the flanks. I'm assuming a first year bird hanging on to a little brown still. Odd transition I've not seen before. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Avery 1,910 Posted January 9 Share Posted January 9 17 hours ago, chipperatl said: Yep, I have one with very clear "White-winged" like tips hanging around. It doesn't look bigger than the others, but they are the most white I've seen on the Slate-coloreds around here. It also has buffy wash mixed in with the grey on the flanks. I'm assuming a first year bird hanging on to a little brown still. Odd transition I've not seen before. I saw a “white-winged” SCJU at my house not too long ago! Sibley says that variant is around 1 in 200 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
chipperatl 681 Posted January 10 Author Share Posted January 10 5 hours ago, Avery said: I saw a “white-winged” SCJU at my house not too long ago! Sibley says that variant is around 1 in 200 I’ve had 3 or 4 in the past 3 winters. One I was close to submitting to MBRC, as it has significant white tail feathers also. INaturalist has confirmations on it, but I reached out to Ted Floyd and David Sibley and they said no dice. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
DLecy 902 Posted January 10 Share Posted January 10 4 hours ago, chipperatl said: I’ve had 3 or 4 in the past 3 winters. One I was close to submitting to MBRC, as it has significant white tail feathers also. INaturalist has confirmations on it, but I reached out to Ted Floyd and David Sibley and they said no dice. You can "reach out" to Ted Floyd and David Sibley?! Who are you? Care to share those photos of the controversial WWJU? I'd love to see 'em. 2 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Tony Leukering 3,316 Posted January 11 Share Posted January 11 On 1/4/2021 at 9:57 PM, DLecy said: Are these all the same bird? The third bird looks different than the others to me and could have some SCJU characteristics with the hint of darker flanks and the darkness of the breast bleeding bit into the sides. It may be well within the range of an immature female ORJU, but you could always safely eBird it as Dark-eyed Junco, and not put it to ssp. As others have pointed out, Pink-sided have pink/cinnamon that extends far down the sides of the flanks and the breast which almost meets in the center of the belly and gives the bird a decidedly pink-bellied look. Additionally, Pink-sided are noticeably larger than Oregons in the field, have a more singularly light gray head, and contrastingly dark lores. And a LOT more white in the tail 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
chipperatl 681 Posted January 11 Author Share Posted January 11 22 hours ago, DLecy said: You can "reach out" to Ted Floyd and David Sibley?! Who are you? Care to share those photos of the controversial WWJU? I'd love to see 'em. Emails are available via ABA site and Sibley’s site. Trust me I was surprised they answered. 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
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