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1 minute ago, Avery said:

Swan Goose x Canada Goose. Extensive white on the rear, face, and neck, as well as the yellow legs.

A little off topic, but what is it with the west and all the hybrids and domestic birds?

Unless I'm missing something I don't think this is in the west. But, there aren't too many domestics around where I am. There's a pond in my county with some of those big, bulky Mallards, but that's it. But overall, the west coast does seem to have a higher representation of domestics here on the forum. This is probably due to the weather, it never really gets cold (below 30 degrees) here, or anywhere on the pacific coast, so birds that are sedentary could stay the winter. This is also the same in other warm places, I see a good amount of domestics in Florida when I'm there.

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5 minutes ago, Connor Cochrane said:

Unless I'm missing something I don't think this is in the west. But, there aren't too many domestics around where I am. There's a pond in my county with some of those big, bulky Mallards, but that's it. But overall, the west coast does seem to have a higher representation of domestics here on the forum. This is probably due to the weather, it never really gets cold (below 30 degrees) here, or anywhere on the pacific coast, so birds that are sedentary could stay the winter. This is also the same in other warm places, I see a good amount of domestics in Florida when I'm there.

Yeah, I realize this could be from anywhere. Just the subject of hybrids made me wonder why so many are found on the west. But yeah, warm climate year round makes sense, as there seems to be a similar situation in Florida

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14 minutes ago, Avery said:

Swan Goose x Canada Goose. Extensive white on the rear, face, and neck, as well as the yellow legs.

domestic swan goose though right? That's a frustrating label to me because when someone just says "swan goose" you don't first think domestic since there is a wild swan goose... which looks a little bit different.

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58 minutes ago, millipede said:

domestic swan goose though right? That's a frustrating label to me because when someone just says "swan goose" you don't first think domestic since there is a wild swan goose... which looks a little bit different.

I would assume so. Sibley happened to have an illustration of your bird so I just copied the name. 

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I never heard of a swan goose and when I first saw your bird, I thought of a barnyard (Greylag) goose x Canada goose. Like the photo of this bird (?) has which has been hanging around for about a year now. It has orange legs.

 

19M_4926wb.jpg

Edited by AndyW
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2 hours ago, Connor Cochrane said:

Unless I'm missing something I don't think this is in the west. But, there aren't too many domestics around where I am. There's a pond in my county with some of those big, bulky Mallards, but that's it. But overall, the west coast does seem to have a higher representation of domestics here on the forum. This is probably due to the weather, it never really gets cold (below 30 degrees) here, or anywhere on the pacific coast, so birds that are sedentary could stay the winter. This is also the same in other warm places, I see a good amount of domestics in Florida when I'm there.

on ebird, i cant find anything for NA on swan goose?

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1 minute ago, Tony Leukering said:

Neither parental species should provide for orange legs. I would go with Graylag (domestic) x Canada, a VERY frequent combination.

I was sugesting an ID for the original bird posted, not the second one, which is in fact a Graylag (domestic) x Canada that @AndyW posted

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On 2/4/2021 at 2:28 PM, Avery said:

A little off topic, but what is it with the west and all the hybrids and domestic birds?

 

On 2/4/2021 at 2:32 PM, Connor Cochrane said:

But overall, the west coast does seem to have a higher representation of domestics here on the forum.

Is it that there are more hybrids in the west, or are some western Whatbird members more inclined to suspect hybridization?  Many posts here suggesting hybrids are resolved to a 'pure' species.

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13 hours ago, Charlie Spencer said:

 

Is it that there are more hybrids in the west, or are some western Whatbird members more inclined to suspect hybridization?  Many posts here suggesting hybrids are resolved to a 'pure' species.

Both birds have yellow/orange legs, something not found in Canada Goose. That leg color suggests very strongly an admixture of Anser genes. Since, except for Lesser Canada, Canada does not breed near the other native goose species that breed in the ABA Area, including the three Anser species, the most likely hybrid combo to result in non-black legs is domestic Graylag Geese. As one can see from the eBird map, Graylag Goose (Domestic type) x Canada Goose (hybrid) is not at all rare in the East. In fact, as one would expect with more parks, more people (birders), more trash geese, the hybrid combo is far more frequently reported in the East than in the West.

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16 minutes ago, Tony Leukering said:

Both birds have yellow/orange legs, something not found in Canada Goose. That leg color suggests very strongly an admixture of Anser genes. Since, except for Lesser Canada, Canada does not breed near the other native goose species that breed in the ABA Area, including the three Anser species, the most likely hybrid combo to result in non-black legs is domestic Graylag Geese. As one can see from the eBird map, Graylag Goose (Domestic type) x Canada Goose (hybrid) is not at all rare in the East. In fact, as one would expect with more parks, more people (birders), more trash geese, the hybrid combo is far more frequently reported in the East than in the West.

I was making a more generic observation about "Hybrid?" posts, not necessarily related to this specific bird.  Sorry if I confused anyone.

Edited by Charlie Spencer
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13 hours ago, Charlie Spencer said:

 

Is it that there are more hybrids in the west, or are some western Whatbird members more inclined to suspect hybridization?  Many posts here suggesting hybrids are resolved to a 'pure' species.

Virtually all hybrid geese in the ABA Area involving two native species are between two arctic-breeding species. Of those, only Snow Goose is of widespread and reasonably common occurrence across the breadth of the Lower 48. Ross's Goose is primarily a central and western species. Cackling Goose is primarily a western and central species. Greater White-fronted Goose is, primarily,  a central and western species. Brant is primarily a coastal species.

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14 hours ago, Charlie Spencer said:

 

Is it that there are more hybrids in the west, or are some western Whatbird members more inclined to suspect hybridization?  Many posts here suggesting hybrids are resolved to a 'pure' species.

I think some newer birders might be more inclined to jump to the hybrid conclusion, not sure if that can be related to the west or east though. I think some newer members struggle to separate certain species at times and use the hybrid suggestion when they can't make the tricky IDs. I also think that once the idea of hybrids gets into some people minds, which appears to have happened recently, well, they start looking to ID hybrids before they look for the basic IDs. That's just an opinion, and we all know about opinions.

Edited by lonestranger
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On 08/02/2021 at 6:43 PM, lonestranger said:

I also think that once the idea of hybrids gets into some people minds, which appears to have happened recently, well, they start looking to ID hybrids before they look for the basic IDs. That's just an opinion, and we all know about opinions.

This is an interesting opinion (and we all know about opinions) on this, and a fun read:

http://canadianwoodcock.com/2021/01/03/whitegeese/

(I want to be very clear that I don't think the rant at the start applies to anyone on this forum. The birding community in the author's region seems to be, um, challenging, based on what I've been told.)

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6 hours ago, PaulK said:

I want to be very clear that I don't think the rant at the start applies to anyone on this forum.

I don't think so either.  What started me down this path is the increase in the number of 'Is This a Hybrid?' questions in the last few weeks.  Some of the posts read as it the observer couldn't immediately ID the bird, decided it must therefore be a hybrid, and set off on a wild (Snow x Ross's) goose chase for the lineage.  Often someone will point out features the observer missed and nail the ID down to an unadulterated species, but like sticking beans up your nose, the notion then remains out there.

Edited by Charlie Spencer
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It is a good article, especially the part about the challenges of sifting through opinions on online identification forums.  This forum is a great resource, once you've been on it long enough to know which people are really good at bird identification.  I do worry about infrequent visitors getting questionable identifications from people only one page ahead of them in the book.  The good news is the attitudes of pretty much everyone on here are excellent.  Mistakes get corrected, everyone learns, no hard feelings and there are no rancorous debates.

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4 hours ago, Jim W said:

I do worry about infrequent visitors getting questionable identifications from people only one page ahead of them in the book.  The good news is the attitudes of pretty much everyone on here are excellent.  Mistakes get corrected, everyone learns, no hard feelings and there are no rancorous debates.

I'm one of the people just one page ahead in the book, and I wholeheartedly agree with all this!

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9 hours ago, Jim W said:

I do worry about infrequent visitors getting questionable identifications from people only one page ahead of them in the book. 

They usually get straightened out promptly, and with no hard feelings.  As long as those correcting continue to do it politely, and those being corrected accept that it's possible to make a mistake, this forum will be just fine.

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9 hours ago, Jim W said:

I do worry about infrequent visitors getting questionable identifications from people only one page ahead of them in the book.

Oh the discussions I see on facebook...
I like to think I'm 2 or 3 pages ahead at least... 
What's funny/interesting to me...  At least for me, as I learned, I learned what my limitations are. Seems some people get a little too sure of themselves at the very beginning.

Hey, maybe we can have a scoring system for users... that shows what page of the book they're on.  😛 

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