Thayer's or Iceland subspecies?

[MWM]

Taken in Geneva NY 2/4/21. Was kind enough to fly away from large flock of mixed gulls for a photo op.

[AlexHenry]

Iceland Gull

[Hasan]

I'm pretty sure the question was solely about the subspecies. Any more photos? I'm not an expert on gulls by any means but at least from this photo it is pretty light, all things considered.

[AlexHenry]

Yeah, it looks too pale for Thayer's. However, I would leave it unidentified to subspecies and enter it as Iceland Gull

[AlexHenry]

I think its probably Kumlien's just not sure... probably safe to call it kumlieni/glaucescens? I think we can pretty much rule out Thayer's. But again not 100% certain.

Edited February 5, 2021 by AlexHenry

[DLecy]

The expected ssp. there is kumlieni, and I think even the palest thayeri have some dark/dusky underwings and primary tips (which this bird lacks), so I think you are relatively safe with kumlieni IF you absolutely must drill it down to ssp.

As @AlexHenry said, Iceland Gull is respectable as well and perhaps the most appropriate ID here; especially given that much remains unclear and/or is controversial about the Iceland Gull complex. "so the degree of reported interbreeding is impossible to assess. Hence, we can’t learn how much Kumlien’s and Thayer’s interbreed until we can distinguish them, but we can’t distinguish them because they appear to interbreed." ?

There is only one confirmed glaucoides record for the entire state of NY (per eBird). 

[MWM]

Thanks all, didn't have any pics showing tops of the wings. Guess this might be a good reason that Thayer's isn't a separate species anymore?

[Tony Leukering]

On 2/4/2021 at 7:57 PM, DLecy said:

The expected ssp. there is kumlieni, and I think even the palest thayeri have some dark/dusky underwings and primary tips (which this bird lacks)

Mostly right, and I agree that the beast is referable to kumlieni. Given that the bird is in its first plumage cycle, one of the better features ruling out thayeri FOR THIS INDIVIDUAL, is the relative lack of darker outer webs on the primaries. This bird is on the pale end even for kumlieni, and given the number of apparently accepted reports of nominate glaucoides in the northeast US and southeast Canada, you're probably best served reporting it using the "Iceland Gull (glaucoides/kumlieni)" entry.