Sound ID: chickadee species?

[MicahM]

Recorded this song this morning and it’s been suggested that it’s probably in the chickadee/Tit/titmice family. I’m is SE PA, so there are really only three options in that group: tufted titmouse, Carolina or black capped chickadee. I’ve been listening to recordings for all three and have not found anything quite like it yet - though I’m leaning Carolina as most likely.

New Recording 27.m4a

[The Bird Nuts]

Definitely a chickadee.  I'd say, since it doesn't sound exactly like a Black-capped, which is the only chickadee I'm familiar with, it's either a Carolina or hybrid.

[DLecy]

Why isn’t this a Tufted Titmouse?

[Katelyn Davis]

1 hour ago, DLecy said:

Why isn’t this a Tufted Titmouse?

I’ve never known a titmouse to make a sound like this. For the same reason as @The Bird Nuts I’d say not Black-capped. 

[Avery]

9 hours ago, The Bird Nuts said:

Definitely a chickadee.  I'd say, since it doesn't sound exactly like a Black-capped, which is the only chickadee I'm familiar with, it's either a Carolina or hybrid.

Yes, it does sound a lot like Black-capped, but different. 

[DLecy]

3 hours ago, Avery said:

Yes, it does sound a lot like Black-capped, but different. 

 

13 hours ago, The Bird Nuts said:

Definitely a chickadee.  I'd say, since it doesn't sound exactly like a Black-capped, which is the only chickadee I'm familiar with, it's either a Carolina or hybrid.

I guess I'm looking for more of an answer here. We, as birders, are exceedingly good at describing a bird visually, but are more often than not challenged when it comes to describing what we hear in terms of bird vocalizations. 

As a primarily West Coast birder, I know that Chestnut-backed Chickadee and Oak Titmouse have very similar, (sometimes confusingly so) calls. I would love to know why this is decidedly a chickadee call versus a TUTI? Not that it's the gold standard, but this sound is VERY close to the last "song" vocalization in the Sibley app. The "fluted" nature of the vocalization sounds better for TUTI than BCCH to me, which would be more "whistled." Additionally, TUTI have anywhere from 12-20 different song variations, depending on which source you consult. So, I am just wondering why/how the eastern birders who jumped quickly on this as a chickadee sp. came to this conclusion? 

Edited February 13, 2021 by DLecy

[The Bird Nuts]

All I can say is that this is the exact same pattern as the BCCH's "trunk tree" call and that TUTIs don't have a similar call.  We study the two very closely here because they are hand-fed every day.

[Avery]

6 minutes ago, The Bird Nuts said:

All I can say is that this is the exact same pattern as the BCCH's "trunk tree" call and that TUTIs don't have a similar call.  We study the two very closely here because they are hand-fed every day.

Yes. The twittering sounds are extremely similar to BCCH, it’s just the two note call that is different. I have no experience with west coast birds. 

[pictaker]

NOt an expert here, in fact, cant tell one from the other but Carolinas and black capped interbreed here in central/southern jersey, which isn't far from SE Pa,so perhaps its a case of mixed breeding?

[Jim W]

1 hour ago, pictaker said:

NOt an expert here, in fact, cant tell one from the other but Carolinas and black capped interbreed here in central/southern jersey, which isn't far from SE Pa,so perhaps its a case of mixed breeding?

 I'm in SE PA.  We are either in, or just south of the intergrade band depending on whose map you look at.   Half of the chickadees I get to my feeders appear to be hybrids.  Most of the rest are Carolina.  I didn't even bother listening to this playback because I hear so many different calls from these guys that I can't conclude a thing from them ?.  In the intergrade area, the two breeds learn each other's songs.

Edited February 13, 2021 by Jim W

[Hasan]

Yeah, this isn't TUTI. They can sound like chickadees but they have a slightly tonality and set of calls.