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6 hours ago, roadcykler said:

Because too many humans are ignorant and single-minded. They're willing to kill one bird to try and save a different one and even though that's been happening for a while, the Spotted Owl population continues to decline. 

I believe they call that, (pukes the words out) "wildlife management" . Unfortunately there are people that think that they know how nature is suppose to work better than nature itself and try to influence the natural flow of things to suit their vision of nature. Killing off one species to save another species is not wildlife management, it is wilddeath management. I know there are those that support the idea and view the culling of wildlife as a corrective action. I view the culling of wildlife as a crime against nature, and obvious proof that wildlife management is an oxymoron that doesn't work. 

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3 hours ago, lonestranger said:

I believe they call that, (pukes the words out) "wildlife management" . Unfortunately there are people that think that they know how nature is suppose to work better than nature itself and try to influence the natural flow of things to suit their vision of nature. Killing off one species to save another species is not wildlife management, it is wilddeath management. I know there are those that support the idea and view the culling of wildlife as a corrective action. I view the culling of wildlife as a crime against nature, and obvious proof that wildlife management is an oxymoron that doesn't work. 

Multiple studies have been done showing that the extermination of Barred Owls helps with Spotted Owl populations. Barred Owls were an east coast species until they spread out west due to logging. It's been proven the Barred Owls have a negative effect on the populations of Spotteds and that by killing them, the already endangered Spotted Owls will have a better chance of recovery. 

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40 minutes ago, Connor Cochrane said:

Multiple studies have been done showing that the extermination of Barred Owls helps with Spotted Owl populations. Barred Owls were an east coast species until they spread out west due to logging. It's been proven the Barred Owls have a negative effect on the populations of Spotteds and that by killing them, the already endangered Spotted Owls will have a better chance of recovery. 

It's been proven that people have a negative effect on the populations of many species.....

Killing off innocent wildlife to make up for our logging mistakes is a weak argument to support wildlife management. Sorry, but we don't know how to log without endangering many species, and I think it's wrong to put the consequences of our actions on the lives of innocent birds and call it wildlife management as if we know what we're doing. 

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6 hours ago, lonestranger said:

It's been proven that people have a negative effect on the populations of many species.....

Killing off innocent wildlife to make up for our logging mistakes is a weak argument to support wildlife management. Sorry, but we don't know how to log without endangering many species, and I think it's wrong to put the consequences of our actions on the lives of innocent birds and call it wildlife management as if we know what we're doing. 

Conservation is a really tricky subject…

This sort of thing (culling predators) is definitely a band aid issue as it does nothing too address the main reason for the decline of spotted owls, which is the removal of old growth forests. Yet, old growth forests takes hundreds to thousands of years to grow, so there’s no quick fix to undo the mistake of cutting them down. In the mean time then, as forests age and get protected (hopefully), it makes sense to cull what many would consider an invasive species to ensure that spotted owl populations remain stable so that when (if) suitable habitat returns for them, there’s actually spotted owls left to fill those niches. 
It’s not really fair for the barred owls, as they’re just simply expanding their range, but since they have such a large distribution and are far more numerous, they get the short end of the stick. Killing a couple barred owls a year is not going to have much of an impact on the population dynamics of barred owls, yet barred owls killing a few spotted owls a year is going to have exaggerated effects on spotted owl population dynamics as they exist in much smaller populations. 
Since conservation is mostly about conserving the most biodiversity, killing barred owls in spotted owl territory allows both species to exist (just not in the same area).

I don’t necessarily agree with it, but the same practices are applied to other animals all over the world. Here, wolves are culled annually to preserve Caribou, but yet we still build pipelines and roads that fragment the boreal forest which not only gives wolves access to Caribou, but introduces deer and moose which inflates the wolf population which causes more predation on caribou.
So yes, we should be targeting the main sources of species decline instead of managing the secondary consequences of our actions, but often that’s not very feasible (people need wood, gas, roads) or takes a long time so secondary measures like culling are needed as a ‘temporary’ solution. 

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26 minutes ago, blackburnian said:

Mountain Bluebird in NC! 
 

https://macaulaylibrary.org/asset/420941491
 

Also some shots of a pigeon and mockingbird…slow day otherwise. 
 

https://ebird.org/checklist/S103837309
https://ebird.org/checklist/S103829746

 

Beautiful pic of the Mountain Bluebird. I've never seen one.   From a PC, you can embed an Ebird photo into a post.  Hold the mouse into any area of the image and drag it into the title bar.  You can paste that URL into the body of the post, so people can see the beauty right away. 🙂


Like this:

2400?__hstc=264660688.11bbbc6bc4503610c3
 

Edited by dragon49
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On 2/27/2022 at 6:18 PM, Aaron said:

Conservation is a really tricky subject…

This sort of thing (culling predators) is definitely a band aid issue as it does nothing too address the main reason for the decline of spotted owls, which is the removal of old growth forests. Yet, old growth forests takes hundreds to thousands of years to grow, so there’s no quick fix to undo the mistake of cutting them down. In the mean time then, as forests age and get protected (hopefully), it makes sense to cull what many would consider an invasive species to ensure that spotted owl populations remain stable so that when (if) suitable habitat returns for them, there’s actually spotted owls left to fill those niches. 
It’s not really fair for the barred owls, as they’re just simply expanding their range, but since they have such a large distribution and are far more numerous, they get the short end of the stick. Killing a couple barred owls a year is not going to have much of an impact on the population dynamics of barred owls, yet barred owls killing a few spotted owls a year is going to have exaggerated effects on spotted owl population dynamics as they exist in much smaller populations. 
Since conservation is mostly about conserving the most biodiversity, killing barred owls in spotted owl territory allows both species to exist (just not in the same area).

I don’t necessarily agree with it, but the same practices are applied to other animals all over the world. Here, wolves are culled annually to preserve Caribou, but yet we still build pipelines and roads that fragment the boreal forest which not only gives wolves access to Caribou, but introduces deer and moose which inflates the wolf population which causes more predation on caribou.
So yes, we should be targeting the main sources of species decline instead of managing the secondary consequences of our actions, but often that’s not very feasible (people need wood, gas, roads) or takes a long time so secondary measures like culling are needed as a ‘temporary’ solution. 

I live in a fairly urban area but about 15 minutes from my house is a park that is very well known in NJ as a great migrant trap in both spring & fall. It's kind of like the same affect as Central Park in NYC. The migrating birds see a green oasis in the middle of urban sprawl & use it as a refueling station. In the past it wasn't uncommon to have days where you could find 20 different species of Warbler & some days it seemed like there were birds just dripping off all the trees. I've been birding there for about 15 years though & in that time there's been quite a bit of change. It still a good place to bird but it seems like every year there are fewer & fewer birds. There is a reason for it too. Over the years the park has been taken over by White-tailed Deer. There are obviously no natural predators there so they just keep reproducing & eating to the point that they have destroyed the understory of plants many of the birds relied on for sustenance. Once these plants are gone too invasive species like Rosa multiflora come in & take over. Since it is a multi-use park people visiting there also feed the deer, exacerbating the problem in spite of signs all over saying not to feed the wildlife.

The people who bird the park have approached local officials trying to have something done about the problem. Suggestions have ranged from trapping & relocating to conducting a hunt to cull the heard. I agree it is sad that this human caused problem has allowed things to reach this point but I also agree that in some cases human intervention has become necessary to "manage" wildlife. It should not have happened but what other choice is there? The deer in the state are doing better then ever. Birds all over the world are in trouble though. I wish it had not become such a bad situation but at this point I would personally rather do something to help the birds. They have put up fencing in parts of the park to exclude the deer from certain areas but so far that has not seemed to help much.  Hopefully that will change. I miss the old days there.

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