ronvan3 Posted July 4, 2021 Share Posted July 4, 2021 I would love some help IDing this one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Caley Thomas Posted July 4, 2021 Share Posted July 4, 2021 When & where did you see it? 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ronvan3 Posted July 4, 2021 Author Share Posted July 4, 2021 4 hours ago, Caley Thomas said: When & where did you see it? Southeast Virginia in mid-May. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Bird Nuts Posted July 4, 2021 Share Posted July 4, 2021 Yes, it's a young Northern Cardinal. 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seanbirds Posted July 4, 2021 Share Posted July 4, 2021 1 hour ago, The Bird Nuts said: Yes, it's a young Northern Cardinal. Agreed. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bird-Boys Posted July 4, 2021 Share Posted July 4, 2021 Nominate ssp. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quiscalus quiscula Posted July 4, 2021 Share Posted July 4, 2021 3 hours ago, Bird-Boys said: Nominate ssp. Wait- there are subspecies for Northern Cardinals? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bird-Boys Posted July 4, 2021 Share Posted July 4, 2021 Yes, there are 18 of them in fact. 5 in the US and 13 in Mexico. 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quiscalus quiscula Posted July 5, 2021 Share Posted July 5, 2021 20 hours ago, Bird-Boys said: Yes, there are 18 of them in fact. 5 in the US and 13 in Mexico. Interesting, I never knew. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quiscalus quiscula Posted July 5, 2021 Share Posted July 5, 2021 20 hours ago, Bird-Boys said: Yes, there are 18 of them in fact. 5 in the US and 13 in Mexico. Actually, one website says 19. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bird-Boys Posted July 5, 2021 Share Posted July 5, 2021 2 hours ago, Quiscalus quiscula said: Actually, one website says 19. Which Website? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Connor Cochrane Posted July 6, 2021 Share Posted July 6, 2021 On 7/4/2021 at 12:27 PM, Bird-Boys said: Nominate ssp. How can you tell? I would refrain from IDing subspecies by range. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quiscalus quiscula Posted July 6, 2021 Share Posted July 6, 2021 18 hours ago, Bird-Boys said: Which Website? Audubon website and twoshutterbirds website. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bird-Boys Posted July 7, 2021 Share Posted July 7, 2021 23 hours ago, Connor Cochrane said: How can you tell? I would refrain from IDing subspecies by range. I only ID them in this case because the subspecies are nonmigratory, and are highly unlikely to occur as vagrants outside their normal range. Also, of the three ssp. found east of Texas, only one ssp. (nominate) is found north of Georgia. Therefore, Only the nominate subspecies, cardinalis, occurs in Virginia, so the OP's bird is of the nominate subspecies, cardinalis. Here is some info on the five ssp. found in the US: C. c. cardinalis (Nominate) The nominate ssp. occurs in the eastern United States and southeastern Canada. The boundaries of its range are north to southeastern South Dakota to southern Nova Scotia, west to southeastern South Dakota, central Nebraska, western Kansas, eastern Oklahoma, and central Louisiana, and east to the Atlantic coast, except southeastern Georgia and peninsular Florida. This ssp. has been introduced in Bermuda, Hawaii, and the vicinity of Los Angeles. C. c. superbus This ssp. occurs in extreme southeastern California east through central Arizona to southwestern New Mexico and south to northern Sonora. It has been introduced in the vicinity of Los Angeles. This is the largest subspecies, and is much larger than nominate cardinalis, and its bill is relatively stouter, and the male's black lores do not meet across the forehead. C. c. floridanus This ssp. occurs in southeastern Georgia and peninsular Florida, with some evidence of possible introduction of floridanus to southern California resulting from unintentional releases of cage birds in the early 1900s. Both sexes are smaller and darker than cardinalis, and the bill is similar. Intergrades with nominate cardinalis have been noted on the border of their ranges. C. c. magnirostris This ssp. occurs in southeastern Texas and southern Louisiana, although that distribution could be broader, including central Oklahoma, southern Arkansas, south-central Texas, all of Louisiana, and southwestern Mississippi. This ssp. is larger and heavier-billed, and has a larger face mask than those of cardinalis, floridanus, or canicaudus. It is otherwise most like floridanus, but its wings are slightly longer, its tail shorter, and its feet and tarsi are larger, and the red on the head of the male and the underparts are lighter than on floridanus, but are more intense than on cardinalis. The middle of the female's belly is more whitish than on cardinalis. C. c. canicaudus This ssp. occurs in western Oklahoma south through central and western Texas and central and eastern Mexico from Coahuila to eastern Jalisco, Guanajuato, Hidalgo, and central San Luis Potosí. It has likely been introduced in the vicinity of Los Angeles. Intergrades with coccineus have been noted in northern coastal Veracruz. Its wings are shorter and its bill is slightly larger than in cardinalis. Males are intensely more red, and the black band across the forehead is narrower. Females are grayer above and paler beneath than cardinalis females, with a less distinct face mask. planicola is considered a synonym of canicaudus. Western Texas canicaudus has been reported to differ at a subspecific level from southeastern Texas specimens. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bird-Boys Posted July 7, 2021 Share Posted July 7, 2021 7 hours ago, Quiscalus quiscula said: Audubon website and twoshutterbirds website. Does it recognize planicola as a distinct subspecies? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quiscalus quiscula Posted July 7, 2021 Share Posted July 7, 2021 14 hours ago, Bird-Boys said: Does it recognize planicola as a distinct subspecies? No...It recognizes cardinalis, floridanus, magnirostris, canicaudus, coccineus, littoralis, yucatanicus, phillipsi, flammiger, saturatus, igneus, superbus, seftoni, clintoni, townsendi, affinis, sinaloensis, mariae, and carneus. Phew! That's a lot of latin. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bird-Boys Posted July 7, 2021 Share Posted July 7, 2021 2 hours ago, Quiscalus quiscula said: No...It recognizes cardinalis, floridanus, magnirostris, canicaudus, coccineus, littoralis, yucatanicus, phillipsi, flammiger, saturatus, igneus, superbus, seftoni, clintoni, townsendi, affinis, sinaloensis, mariae, and carneus. Phew! That's a lot of latin. phillipsi was formerly considered a junior synonym of yucatanicus prior to 2013, but it seems that it has since been recognized as a distinct subspecies. I am going to look into this further... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quiscalus quiscula Posted July 7, 2021 Share Posted July 7, 2021 21 minutes ago, Bird-Boys said: phillipsi was formerly considered a junior synonym of yucatanicus prior to 2013, but it seems that it has since been recognized as a distinct subspecies. I am going to look into this further... Yes, this subspecies business is very interesting. It's sort of hard to find literature on this, however. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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