Confusion over this hawk

[Mark F]

I pulled this off my NextDoor feed, shot recently in the SF Bay Area. So far, this bird has been identified as a brown eagle (yes, you read that right ), adolescent golden eagle, Swainson’s hawk, juvenile female red-tailed hawk, peregrine falcon and Cooper’s hawk. The person who appears to be most knowledgeable is saying juvenile female red-tailed hawk. Your thoughts, please.

 

Edited October 29, 2021 by Mark F

[Nivalis]

Well

Definitely not a Peregrine, Coopers hawk or Brown eagle.

I would tend to agree with adult dark morph Swainson's hawk. 

Wait for more opinions! I have already messed up one ID today....

[Charlie Spencer]

3 minutes ago, Nivalis said:

Definitely not a Peregrine, Coopers hawk or Brown eagle.

I'd like to know how you eliminated Brown Eagle 

More seriously, I don't know it it's relevant but there's a whole lot of feathers on those legs.

Edited October 29, 2021 by Charlie Spencer

[Quiscalus quiscula]

Wow that looks INTERESTING. I know this would be rare and I don't have experience with western birds, but with that bill and pale iris, I'm almost thinking dark morph Ferruginous Hawk.

[Quiscalus quiscula]

Just now, Charlie Spencer said:

I'd like to know how you eliminated Brown Eagle 

But Brown Eagle doesn't exist! There is only Brown Snake-Eagle.

[Nivalis]

7 minutes ago, Charlie Spencer said:

I'd like to know how you eliminated Brown Eagle 

 

6 minutes ago, Quiscalus quiscula said:

But Brown Eagle doesn't exist! There is only Brown Snake-Eagle.

How do we know we don't have a Snake eagle friend from over there in Africa.... ? ?

Edited October 29, 2021 by Nivalis

[Charlie Spencer]

'Brown Eagle' is the next Marvel superhero movie.

[Nivalis]

2 minutes ago, Quiscalus quiscula said:

Wow that looks INTERESTING. I know this would be rare and I don't have experience with western birds, but with that bill and pale iris, I'm almost thinking dark morph Ferruginous Hawk.

Interesting proposal, pale iris is a fair point, a Ferruginous would be quite the find. definitely not sure...

[Quiscalus quiscula]

Just now, Nivalis said:

Interesting proposal, pale iris is a fair point, a Ferruginous would be quite the find. definitely not sure...

I agree. The gape line is also what I'm going off of. Ferruginous is not impossible in San Francisco, but according to bar charts on the early side. Plus, dark morph is quite uncommon.

[Quiscalus quiscula]

3 minutes ago, Charlie Spencer said:

'Brown Eagle' is the next Marvel superhero movie.

Ahhhh....you can tell I do not  stay updated with popular culture.

[Charlie Spencer]

2 minutes ago, Quiscalus quiscula said:

Ahhhh....you can tell I do not  stay updated with popular culture.

I can also tell you do not yet know when I'm making stuff up (like my last post).

Edited October 29, 2021 by Charlie Spencer

[Quiscalus quiscula]

1 minute ago, Charlie Spencer said:

I can also tell you do not yet know when I'm making stuff up (like my last post).

Just great...face palm....

[Quiscalus quiscula]

Oh, brown eagle is another name for Golden Eagle.

[PaulK]

Just a reminder that with the huge storm earlier this week things can be really out of place.

[Mark F]

A similar photo, in case it helps. Someone with a good sense of humor has suggested “trouser hawk”.

 

Edited October 29, 2021 by Mark F

[Jerry Friedman]

Is the gape long enough for Ferruginous?  I'm liking the Swainson's suggestion, but a juvenile with the pale iris.  One of the photos at All About Birds shows a Swainson's with similar barred "pants", and another shows a similar breast.

[The Bird Nuts]

It has vertical streaks on the upper breast, a barred belly band, and possibly a dark patagial bar in the second photo.  I don't see why this isn't a Red-tailed.  Wonder what @Greenesnake has to say.

[Connor Cochrane]

Agreed, looks like a Red-tailed to me. 

[PaulK]

On the far right of the first photo there's a little slice of what could be a red tail, that seems to be behind the leaves and is a reddish colour rather than the brownish leaves. Not sure if this is diagnostic for dark morph red tails.

[Jerry Friedman]

6 hours ago, The Bird Nuts said:

It has vertical streaks on the upper breast, a barred belly band, and possibly a dark patagial bar in the second photo.  I don't see why this isn't a Red-tailed.  Wonder what @Greenesnake has to say.

I think the contrast between the solid gray head and the light brown (rufous?) barring on the belly and legs would be very strange for a Red-tail.  Usually they have brown heads, or solid black on the darkest of dark morphs, and black or dark brown belly bands.  On the other hand Swainson's can have that look.

https://www.audubon.org/field-guide/bird/swainsons-hawk

This juvenile bird differs from those adults because it has a dark throat, less white next to the bill, and typical juvenile Swainson's breast plumage, buff with dark streaks.  The pale-edged, not mottled, wing and back feathers look good for Swainson's to me too.

Wish we could see the wingtips and tail.

[Jerry Friedman]

1 hour ago, PaulK said:

On the far right of the first photo there's a little slice of what could be a red tail, that seems to be behind the leaves and is a reddish colour rather than the brownish leaves. Not sure if this is diagnostic for dark morph red tails.

 

I can't tell whether that's the tail or not.  Rufous on the tail would mean Red-tailed, because the only other buteo that can have that is Ferruginous, and I'm sure this isn't a ferruge.

[IKLland]

6 hours ago, Connor Cochrane said:

Agreed, looks like a Red-tailed to me. 

Agreed. 

[The Bird Nuts]

9 hours ago, Jerry Friedman said:

I think the contrast between the solid gray head and the light brown (rufous?) barring on the belly and legs would be very strange for a Red-tail.  Usually they have brown heads, or solid black on the darkest of dark morphs, and black or dark brown belly bands.  On the other hand Swainson's can have that look.

https://www.audubon.org/field-guide/bird/swainsons-hawk

This juvenile bird differs from those adults because it has a dark throat, less white next to the bill, and typical juvenile Swainson's breast plumage, buff with dark streaks.  The pale-edged, not mottled, wing and back feathers look good for Swainson's to me too.

Wish we could see the wingtips and tail.

The head is dark brown, the same color as the back.  I agree that it is strange there is little mottling on the wings and back.  But the relatively narrow streaking on the upper breast combined with the barring on the belly doesn't seem right for a Swainson's and fits an older Red-tailed.

Definitely a strange bird...perhaps even a....hybrid. ?

[Jerry Friedman]

23 minutes ago, The Bird Nuts said:

The head is dark brown, the same color as the back.  I agree that it is strange there is little mottling on the wings and back.  But the relatively narrow streaking on the upper breast combined with the barring on the belly doesn't seem right for a Swainson's and fits an older Red-tailed.

Definitely a strange bird...perhaps even a....hybrid. ?

I'll take your word for the color of the head, but my point is that Red-tails seldom if ever have a belly band that's a lighter and warmer color than the head.  Anyway, I'm happy to wait for further input.  Or if the photographer doesn't mind, I could ask the raptor specialists on Facebook.

[Greenesnake]

I agree that this bird is likely a Red-tailed and that is definitely the case if that is indeed the tail we're seeing on the right side that's brick red. It's an unusual looking bird to be sure but I can't make it into anything but a Red-tailed.