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Herring Gulls?


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Are these both Herring gulls in different winter classes or is the first one an Thayers?  These two stood out from all the Ring-billed and adult Herring gulls but couldn't see a size different as they were far away from the adult Herring.  They were found on the Lake Nipissing waterfront where some different gull species have been reported including Great-black backed, Iceland etc.,  Thank you for your help.  

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Inexpert opinion: the second bird looks good for herring to me because of the paler inner primaries and white rump; for a Thayer's that dark I'd expect a darker rump. But please wait for confirmation, especially with that apparently dark eye. 

The first bird is really confusing me.

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