IKLland Posted January 24, 2022 Share Posted January 24, 2022 (edited) Hi all, I came across this junco flock today, and all birds were obviously oregons. However, this one bird stuck out. It looks quite pale overall. I’m tagging some west coast birders, but anyone’s thoughts on subspecies/group are welcome! thanks! @DLecy @Connor Cochrane @Aidan B Pink sided? Or just a drab drab Oregon? today, Orange County, Ca. Edited January 24, 2022 by IKLland Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aidan B Posted January 24, 2022 Share Posted January 24, 2022 (edited) Those flanks are pretty gray, not sure what it is though. Edited January 24, 2022 by Aidan B 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IKLland Posted January 24, 2022 Author Share Posted January 24, 2022 Just now, Aidan B said: Those flanks are pretty gray. So…..Oregon? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aidan B Posted January 24, 2022 Share Posted January 24, 2022 Just now, IKLland said: So…..Oregon? I'd assume Oregon, and it would probably be safe to call it that. It's definitely not a Pink-sided. If anything, it's on the Cismontanus side of things. 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IKLland Posted January 24, 2022 Author Share Posted January 24, 2022 Just now, Aidan B said: I'd assume Oregon, and it would probably be safe to call it that. It's definitely not a Pink-sided. If anything, it's on the Cismontanus side of things. Ok. What exactly IS a cismontanus? I know it’s a subspecies, but what group is it part of and where does it live? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aidan B Posted January 24, 2022 Share Posted January 24, 2022 1 minute ago, IKLland said: What exactly IS a cismontanus Good question! 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IKLland Posted January 24, 2022 Author Share Posted January 24, 2022 Just now, Aidan B said: Good question! Nice profile photo. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aidan B Posted January 24, 2022 Share Posted January 24, 2022 1 minute ago, IKLland said: Ok. What exactly IS a cismontanus? I know it’s a subspecies, but what group is it part of and where does it live? This is my understanding of what cismontanus is. Basically, there is two types of Juncos people call cismontanus. There's the type you think of, basically like a slate colored Junco with a hood, and than there's that Slate-colored/Oregon intergrade swarm. I don't think anyone really knows where they breed, ebird shows a few records from the northwest during summer, but not many. I believe they they are closer to Slate-colored than Oregon, though I could be wrong. Anyone have anything to add to this? I'd like to know more about these. I love looking though junco subspecies. 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IKLland Posted January 24, 2022 Author Share Posted January 24, 2022 Just now, Aidan B said: I'd like to know more about these. Agreed! 1 minute ago, Aidan B said: . I love looking though junco subspecies. Disagreed! 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Connor Cochrane Posted January 24, 2022 Share Posted January 24, 2022 (edited) 48 minutes ago, IKLland said: where does it live? The traditional breeding range for cismontanus juncos is the Canadian Rockies in British Columbia. Edited January 24, 2022 by Connor Cochrane 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IKLland Posted January 24, 2022 Author Share Posted January 24, 2022 1 minute ago, Connor Cochrane said: The traditional breeding range for cismontanus juncos is the Canadian Rockies in British Columbia. Thanks for the info. Do you think this is Oregon or cismontanus? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Connor Cochrane Posted January 24, 2022 Share Posted January 24, 2022 (edited) 4 minutes ago, IKLland said: Thanks for the info. Do you think this is Oregon or cismontanus? I'd say Oregon. I think the flanks look grayer than they are in actuality in the first photo because the birds in shadow. Edited January 24, 2022 by Connor Cochrane 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lonestranger Posted January 24, 2022 Share Posted January 24, 2022 7 hours ago, IKLland said: anyone’s thoughts on subspecies/group are welcome! Okay, you asked for it. I think there's enough individual variation with Dark-eyed Juncos, and many other birds, that the only way to be sure of any questionable subspecies is with DNA samples. Trying to figure out if a bird fits neatly into xxxxxxxxxxyz or xxxxxxxxxzy subspecies from photos might be entertaining, but I don't think it can be anywhere near conclusive. I also don't think birds can be identified strictly by range either, which makes me think that those questionable subspecies are virtually impossible to ID conclusively. Just my opinion. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Charlie Spencer Posted January 24, 2022 Share Posted January 24, 2022 js;dr * * 'junco subspecies; didn't read' 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chipperatl Posted January 24, 2022 Share Posted January 24, 2022 (edited) 16 hours ago, IKLland said: Ok. What exactly IS a cismontanus? I know it’s a subspecies, but what group is it part of and where does it live? Can't quote all 16 pages from Miller's Speciation in the Avian Genus Junco. I would have suggested anyone wanting more info on Juncos pick up a copy, but the price has skyrocketed on it, on Abebooks.com. I picked up my copy for $35, but there is only one copy on there now for $125. Bent has a brief description on them in Life Histories of North American Cardinals....Sparrows and Allies. Edited January 24, 2022 by chipperatl 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kevin Posted January 24, 2022 Share Posted January 24, 2022 5 minutes ago, chipperatl said: but there is only one copy on there now for $125. I'll be happy just knowing the species. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Create an account or sign in to comment
You need to be a member in order to leave a comment
Create an account
Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!
Register a new accountSign in
Already have an account? Sign in here.
Sign In Now