Birding Boy Posted January 27 Share Posted January 27 Juncos were getting too easy for ya'll, so here are some redpolls for a change. I obtained these first three photos before the flock flew, which show a bird I'm pretty positive is a female Hoary. Paler overall, very weak flank streaking, what appears to be a white rump (The angle isn't great though), a fairly clean undertail (only two small streaks), and rather subjective and variable but what appears to be a very small bill. Thanks in advance! After 15 minutes or so, another birder and I relocated the flock, and possible the same bird (He didn't get on it the first time, so this is the reason I ask about the next set of photos) Check out that tiny bill in the first photo! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigOly Posted January 27 Share Posted January 27 I believe so. 2 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chipperatl Posted January 27 Share Posted January 27 White rump-a…points to Hoary. 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Birding Boy Posted January 27 Author Share Posted January 27 28 minutes ago, chipperatl said: White rump-a…points to Hoary. 43 minutes ago, BigOly said: I believe so. Thank you! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Avery Posted January 27 Share Posted January 27 I'm not convinced that's the rump. I think it's the flared flanks that we are seeing. Everything else about the bird seems like a Common to me. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Birding Boy Posted January 27 Author Share Posted January 27 4 minutes ago, Avery said: I'm not convinced that's the rump. I think it's the flared flanks that we are seeing. Everything else about the bird seems like a Common to me. First set of photos, or all of them? Yeah, it’s hard to get rump views when they’re foraging on Alders. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
meghann Posted January 27 Share Posted January 27 If I'm not mistaken, you're looking for an unstreaked vent, not rump. Just being pedantic. Some of these look awfully streaky on the sides to me, although the 5th photo is suspect. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Birding Boy Posted January 27 Author Share Posted January 27 Yeah, I guess I'm running into another situation where I need to raise my standards again...wish I could find an obvious white Hoary. I see what you mean about the flared feathers @Avery, and I think you may be right...these middle ground redpolls are getting on my nerves 7 minutes ago, meghann said: If I'm not mistaken, you're looking for an unstreaked vent, not rump. Just being pedantic. I'm a little confused, I think ideally the rump is streak free, as are the undertail coverts (Though I think a few small streaks are allowed). Isn't the vent further forward on the bird? I'm not great with avian anatomy though. 10 minutes ago, meghann said: Some of these look awfully streaky on the sides to me, although the 5th photo is suspect. Yeah, FYI photo 5 is the same as 4 and 6. To me they look darker than the first 3, but I dunno. I think I just need to find a good Greenland hornemanni Hoary. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
meghann Posted January 27 Share Posted January 27 5 minutes ago, Birding Boy said: Yeah, I guess I'm running into another situation where I need to raise my standards again...wish I could find an obvious white Hoary. I see what you mean about the flared feathers @Avery, and I think you may be right...these middle ground redpolls are getting on my nerves I'm a little confused, I think ideally the rump is streak free, as are the undertail coverts (Though I think a few small streaks are allowed). Isn't the vent further forward on the bird? I'm not great with avian anatomy though. Yeah, FYI photo 5 is the same as 4 and 6. To me they look darker than the first 3, but I dunno. I think I just need to find a good Greenland hornemanni Hoary. I was taught it's vent and undertail coverts should have no streaks, but could be wrong. And Cornell says no streaks on the uc coverts, but my actual bird guides are in the car. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
meghann Posted January 27 Share Posted January 27 8 minutes ago, Birding Boy said: Isn't the vent further forward on the bird? I'm not great with avian anatomy though. Yeah, but it's like. . .right there. I tend to lump them together, although now someone can be pedantic at ME about that, because they're technically different. Lol. I just don't run into birds where the vent is colored/marked differently than the UC coverts. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Birding Boy Posted January 27 Author Share Posted January 27 7 minutes ago, meghann said: I was taught it's vent and undertail coverts should have no streaks, but could be wrong. And Cornell says no streaks on the uc coverts, but my actual bird guides are in the car. Sibley’s shows 3 UTC/vent streaks, here’s one eBird used for the species page that has a few. It’s an otherwise obvious one though. https://macaulaylibrary.org/asset/287403361 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
meghann Posted January 27 Share Posted January 27 1 minute ago, Birding Boy said: Sibley’s shows 3 UTC/vent streaks, here’s one eBird used for the species page that has a few. It’s an otherwise obvious one though. https://macaulaylibrary.org/asset/287403361 Lookit that teeeeeny bill! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IKLland Posted January 27 Share Posted January 27 3 hours ago, Birding Boy said: Juncos were getting too easy for ya'll No, they weren't! 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Avery Posted January 27 Share Posted January 27 (edited) Hoaries can have “max” 2/3 streaks in the UnTC, and should have a white rump. I believe that even females should show some frostiness on the back and wing coverts. the bill is on the small side, but I never use the bill as a diagnostic feature. Too many things can influence the appearance. 21 minutes ago, Birding Boy said: I think I just need to find a good Greenland hornemanni Hoary. Good luck. They are way rarer than exilipes. They would be much larger and way paler than this bird. Edited January 27 by Avery 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
meghann Posted January 27 Share Posted January 27 Also keep in mind I'm speaking up about birds I have ZERO experience with while I swap tabs between here and watching a movie. 😛 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Avery Posted January 27 Share Posted January 27 23 minutes ago, Birding Boy said: I think you may be right...these middle ground redpolls are getting on my nerves Tell me about it! I was searching through flocks of hundreds, that were constantly moving, mixing with buntings and larks… a nightmare and heaven at the same time! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Avery Posted January 27 Share Posted January 27 @Birding Boycheck out this checklist to see some crazy examples of variability and infuriating individuals 😂🥲 https://ebird.org/checklist/S80514417 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Charlie Spencer Posted January 27 Share Posted January 27 8 hours ago, meghann said: my actual bird guides are in the car. Sounds like an excuse opportunity to buy another guide. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Birding Boy Posted January 27 Author Share Posted January 27 (edited) Thanks for the help all. I also put it on the winter Finch Facebook page, and Matt Young said it looked “good, but not 100% sure) 🤷🏻♂️ I guess I’ll put this one to a slash at some point today, or at least until I can get some conclusive rump shots. I agree that this bird totally isn’t your typical obvious frosty redpoll. Edited January 27 by Birding Boy 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Birding Boy Posted January 27 Author Share Posted January 27 10 hours ago, Avery said: @Birding Boycheck out this checklist to see some crazy examples of variability and infuriating individuals 😂🥲 https://ebird.org/checklist/S80514417 Some lovely examples there! Nice! I need to find some like those. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Birding Boy Posted January 27 Author Share Posted January 27 10 hours ago, Avery said: Tell me about it! I was searching through flocks of hundreds, that were constantly moving, mixing with buntings and larks… a nightmare and heaven at the same time! Hey, at least if they’re in an open field...flight shots and rump shots 😉 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Birding Boy Posted January 27 Author Share Posted January 27 10 hours ago, IKLland said: No, they weren't! LOL, At least they’re all the same species 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PaulK Posted January 27 Share Posted January 27 30 minutes ago, Birding Boy said: LOL, At least they’re all the same species In a couple of years this will likely be true of the redpolls! 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Birding Boy Posted January 27 Author Share Posted January 27 2 minutes ago, PaulK said: In a couple of years this will likely be true of the redpolls! Yeahhh, we’ll see. If that happens, I wonder if Hoary will remain as a subspecies, or if Commons will be a Hoary Subspecies. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IKLland Posted January 27 Share Posted January 27 1 hour ago, Birding Boy said: Yeahhh, we’ll see. If that happens, I wonder if Hoary will remain as a subspecies, or if Commons will be a Hoary Subspecies. If that happens I want to move to Michigan! 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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