Scarlet or Summer in bad light?

[floraphile]

11 Apr 2022 suburban yard with large mature trees, lawn, shrubs

[PascalNJ]

Scarlet, I think. A Summer would have a red tail.

[IKLland]

1 minute ago, PascalNJ said:

Scarlet, I think. A Summer would have a red tail.

agreed. 

[floraphile]

1 minute ago, PascalNJ said:

Scarlet, I think. A Summer would have a red tail.

It would.  I was unsure if this tail was truly black or only shadowed.  

[IKLland]

25 minutes ago, floraphile said:

It would.  I was unsure if this tail was truly black or only shadowed.  

Looking at it closer on my computer, it might be a shadow. I'm not sure...

[Charlie Spencer]

5 minutes ago, IKLland said:

Looking at it closer on my computer, it might be a shadow. I'm not sure...

Those primaries look black to me, top and bottom.

[IKLland]

yeah, it's scarlet. 

[Quiscalus quiscula]

Agreed, those wings are way too black for anything other than Scarlet.

[PascalNJ]

1 hour ago, floraphile said:

It would.  I was unsure if this tail was truly black or only shadowed.  

Undertail coverts are too red and contrasting with the tail feathers to only be a shadow. At least, that's my opinion ?

[Tanager 101]

I'm going with Summer Tanager. Scarlet Tanager is my favorite bird, so I look at tons of photos of them and stuff. This just looked wrong for Scarlet to me from the start. I didn't have a reason why, I just thought it looked wrong. Look closer at the wing especially up by the breast. It is actually red, not black, pushing for Summer. It between the two trees, there is on the edge of the wing some red. I think I can even make out some red on the tail edges looking really close at the photo too. Also not that this is actually a reliable feature, but male Scarlet's are more of a deeper red then this. This bird is too rosy. Not a big difference in the two species. I have looked at Scarlet's enough and they are different then this: darker, different shade of red. I say this is a Summer Tanager with lighting making parts of the wings and tail look darker.

10 hours ago, IKLland said:

Looking at it closer on my computer, it might be a shadow. I'm not sure...

https://ebird.org/species/scatan

https://ebird.org/species/sumtan

Here are both Scarlet and Summer. Look at the color of the males. Scarlet is a deeper red, while Summer is a brighter rosy-red. Maybe this is just me as a painter getting into the color differences too much, but this is my opinion.

[DLecy]

I think I actually agree with Summer Tanager here. Superficially, the bird in this photo could throw one off given the impression of dark tail and primaries. But, keep in mind that SUTA can and do have dark wings and the tail can appear dark when viewed ventrally in low light. SCTA would appear black.

https://macaulaylibrary.org/asset/270433441

https://macaulaylibrary.org/asset/245049811

https://macaulaylibrary.org/asset/222424741

https://macaulaylibrary.org/asset/338779001

The key to ID here though is the bill. Look at the size of that bill...it's just waaay too big for SCTA, IMO.

 

Edited April 12, 2022 by DLecy

[meghann]

Also in the summer camp. (lol) When you zoom in on the pic, you can see the upperside of the left wing in the middle, and it's red, not black. The bill appears to be honking big, too.

[Avery]

Hmm. Looks like a Scarlet

*turns computer brightness to 100%*

Nevermind

[Quiscalus quiscula]

4 hours ago, Avery said:

Hmm. Looks like a Scarlet

*turns computer brightness to 100%*

Nevermind

Same, actually! I always keep my computer brightness under 50 percent, so I missed this one.

[floraphile]

Thanks, everyone!   I thought Summer in the field, but when I looked at the pics, I wasn't so sure.