IKLland Posted May 5, 2022 Share Posted May 5, 2022 Is this a pure Hermit warbler, or a hermit x Townsend’s? Some strange facial pattern here and some light streaking on the sides making me think hybrid but I can’t find a photo that looks like this of a hybrid. Seen today, Orange County, Ca. My only photo. Thanks! 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jodi Nielson Posted May 5, 2022 Share Posted May 5, 2022 Is this not a Black-throated Green Warbler? Probably wrong, but it was the first thing I thought of... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IKLland Posted May 5, 2022 Author Share Posted May 5, 2022 6 minutes ago, Jodi Nielson said: Is this not a Black-throated Green Warbler? Probably wrong, but it was the first thing I thought of... Not in CA. Also, if it were a vagrant, it wouldn’t have yellow on the throat. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jodi Nielson Posted May 5, 2022 Share Posted May 5, 2022 Okay, well the range map shows them in CA. Sorry I tried... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IKLland Posted May 5, 2022 Author Share Posted May 5, 2022 22 minutes ago, Jodi Nielson said: Okay, well the range map shows them in CA. Sorry I tried... What range map? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jodi Nielson Posted May 5, 2022 Share Posted May 5, 2022 21 minutes ago, IKLland said: What range map? the one on ebird Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IKLland Posted May 6, 2022 Author Share Posted May 6, 2022 32 minutes ago, Jodi Nielson said: the one on ebird The reports from California on ebird are all big rarities. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IKLland Posted May 6, 2022 Author Share Posted May 6, 2022 @DLecy@Connor CochraneAny thoughts? Thanks so much! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aidan B Posted May 6, 2022 Share Posted May 6, 2022 I was just looking at this bird on your checklist. I'm pretty sure black in the auriculars = hybrid, but I could be wrong. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zoroark Posted May 6, 2022 Share Posted May 6, 2022 (edited) I want to say a hybrid is quite possible. Looking at recent sightings in Orange County, a male was sighted two weeks ago at Huntington Beach Central Park: https://ebird.org/checklist/S107800655 Expanding the range slightly, another male was seen two days ago at Lake O'Neill: https://ebird.org/checklist/S108861216 Sibley's guide states the following (p. 493 of the 2nd edition of the full US). Quote Hermit and Townsend's Warblers hybridize commonly where their range overlaps in Washington and Oregon, but hybrids are rarely identified elsewhere. [...] the features of the two species can be combined in many ways. Hybrids generally have face and head pattern closer to Hermit, breast and flank pattern closer to Townsend's. Female and first-winter male hybrids can closely resemble Black-throated Green Warbler [...] Edited May 6, 2022 by Zoroark 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sam Eberhard Posted May 6, 2022 Share Posted May 6, 2022 (edited) Considering that the only thing off on this bird is the apparent darkness on the auricular, I think it is probably tough to call it a hybrid especially considering it is in shadow. The breast doesn't seem to have much yellow on it. The scapulars aren't streaky greenish at all, and the sides are classic hermit warbler imo. Edit: I do think your instincts are good and it is surprisingly dark in the malar area as well, just I am not seeing any examples of birds called hybrids that did't have more features intermediate. Edited May 6, 2022 by Sam Eberhard 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IKLland Posted May 6, 2022 Author Share Posted May 6, 2022 44 minutes ago, Sam Eberhard said: Edit: I do think your instincts are good and it is surprisingly dark in the malar area as well, just I am not seeing any examples of birds called hybrids that did't have more features intermediate. This! I know it doesn’t look like a pure bird, but it doesn’t look like a hybrid either. I’m not sure what to think of it! I might send it to my reviewer tomorrow. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IKLland Posted May 6, 2022 Author Share Posted May 6, 2022 I’ve put it as hermit/Townsend’s for now, but will send it out tomorrow. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IKLland Posted May 6, 2022 Author Share Posted May 6, 2022 I really don’t want to go down the road of hoping it’s a rarity, but how did we rule out blacks throated green based on plumage? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lonestranger Posted May 6, 2022 Share Posted May 6, 2022 7 hours ago, IKLland said: I really don’t want to go down the road of hoping it’s a rarity, but how did we rule out blacks throated green based on plumage? Didn't you already do that? 13 hours ago, IKLland said: Not in CA. Also, if it were a vagrant, it wouldn’t have yellow on the throat. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IKLland Posted May 6, 2022 Author Share Posted May 6, 2022 3 hours ago, lonestranger said: Didn't you already do that? I just realized that female BTNWs can have some yellow on the throat… https://macaulaylibrary.org/asset/262952891#_ga=2.262875596.1563095712.1651610924-1955318793.1592873967 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DLecy Posted May 6, 2022 Share Posted May 6, 2022 Your bird is not a BNTW. Look at the mantle, to start. Facial pattern is wrong as well, and there is not enough streaking on the sides of the breast. It’s either a pure female HEWA or a HEWA x TOWA. The photo isn’t great, but I’m leaning towards it’s a enough of a HEWA to call it one. 3 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IKLland Posted May 6, 2022 Author Share Posted May 6, 2022 9 minutes ago, DLecy said: Your bird is not a BNTW. Look at the mantle, to start. Facial pattern is wrong as well, and there is not enough streaking on the sides of the breast. It’s either a pure female HEWA or a HEWA x TOWA. The photo isn’t great, but I’m leaning towards it’s a enough of a HEWA to call it one. Yeah, thanks. Thats exactly what I think. Definitely not a pure TOWA. It just appears to have a very odd facial pattern for a pure HEWA IMO. Also that strange dark area on the bottom of the throat. What's that? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DLecy Posted May 6, 2022 Share Posted May 6, 2022 9 minutes ago, IKLland said: Also that strange dark area on the bottom of the throat. What's that? That is within range of female HEWA. Look at the Macaulay Library and you can find examples of it. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IKLland Posted May 6, 2022 Author Share Posted May 6, 2022 3 hours ago, DLecy said: That is within range of female HEWA. Look at the Macaulay Library and you can find examples of it. Here one! This is labeled as immature female, a very similar bird to mine. https://macaulaylibrary.org So, is there anything you would consider a feature that could possibly indicate hybrid on my bird? Or is it safe to call it HEWA? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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