Hawk?

[ronvan3]

Seen early October in southeast Virginia.

[gpoole]

Looks like a juvenile Red-tailed Hawk with pale mottling along upperwing coverts and pale primary wing panels. I am not an expert.

[IKLland]

18 minutes ago, gpoole said:

Looks like a juvenile Red-tailed Hawk with pale mottling along upperwing coverts and pale primary wing panels. I am not an expert.

Agreed.

[Jerry Friedman]

But an odd one, isn't it?  Washed-out patagial mark, more of a breast band than a belly band, very limited pale markings on the scapulars.  I wonder what the experts at the Red-tailed Hawks of the U.S. group on Facebook would say.

[ronvan3]

18 hours ago, Jerry Friedman said:

But an odd one, isn't it?  Washed-out patagial mark, more of a breast band than a belly band, very limited pale markings on the scapulars.  I wonder what the experts at the Red-tailed Hawks of the U.S. group on Facebook would say.

I asked them and here is the first response I received:

Brian Rusnica

The tawny color on the tops of the primaries there is the "pale crescent" field mark of a juvenile Red-shouldered Hawk.

[Birds are cool]

I don't think that the hawk is red tailed, but it really does not seem like a red shoulder. Brian Rusnica seems like he knows his stuff though.

[gpoole]

 Comments from Jerry Friedman and Brian Rusnica prompted me to do some further research. In the publication 'Hawks From Every Angle' there is a photograph (RS02) of a juvenile Eastern Red-shouldered Hawk with the pale comma-shaped wing panels and pale mottling along the upperwing coverts identical to the poster's images. As stated, the buffy colored crescents on top of the primaries have convinced me that this is a Red-shouldered. I learn so much here.

Edited September 30, 2022 by gpoole

[Avery]

I refrained from commenting on this thread due to my waffling, but my first instinct was RSHA, but the tail bands were confusing me too much to be sure

[Jerry Friedman]

2 hours ago, Avery said:

I refrained from commenting on this thread due to my waffling, but my first instinct was RSHA, but the tail bands were confusing me too much to be sure

Yeah, those faint, narrow tail bands didn't seem right for Red-shouldered.  Very strange.

[The Bird Nuts]

Red-shouldered for me.  Juvie RSHA tail patterns vary quite a bit.

[chipperatl]

A Red-shouldered with red in its tail?

[lonestranger]

I would have called this a Red-tailed and not thought twice about it. I would have expected a longer, almost Accipiter lengthed tail for a Red-shouldered. I'm not questioning the ID, just stating that I wouldn't have even considered another option than Red-tailed, especially with the red coming in on the tail. 

[chipperatl]

1 hour ago, chipperatl said:

A Red-shouldered with red in its tail?

I guess so

https://macaulaylibrary.org/asset/376088701#_ga=2.98990107.461685719.1664716753-90661407.1664144844

 

[IKLland]

I’m having a very hard time trying to make this a RSHA. @Greenesnake @AlexHenry @DLecy @Hasan

[Quiscalus quiscula]

I wouldn't have trouble calling this a Red-shouldered Hawk, especially considering that this is the Eastern subspecies. The buffy crescent is very strong, the tail with reddish wash is typical, and we don't see the alula mark on the under wing that RTHA would have.