Charlie Spencer Posted December 20, 2022 Share Posted December 20, 2022 Batesburg-Leesville Industrial Park, Lexington County, central SC. Dec 4, 2022. Low scrub and grasses adjoining mixed pine / hardwood forest and open fields with scattered deciduous trees. What's the left bird? White-throated Sparrow on the right for comparison. Too much Life events between then and now for me to think about doing my own legwork on this one. Thanks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quiscalus quiscula Posted December 20, 2022 Share Posted December 20, 2022 Another dull tan-striped morph White-throated Sparrow I believe. Structure and back color look good, and the scruffy throat feathers are white. I assume it was about the same size? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PaulK Posted December 20, 2022 Share Posted December 20, 2022 Why isn't that a Song Sparrow, especially with that thin bill? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Avery Posted December 20, 2022 Share Posted December 20, 2022 (edited) The left bird is a scruffy Swamp Sparrow. Thinner bill, triangular postocular spot, grayish-green face, whitish throat, limited streaking on breasts, reddish tones on wings and back. Edited December 20, 2022 by Avery commas exist, use them 7 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colton V Posted December 20, 2022 Share Posted December 20, 2022 39 minutes ago, Avery said: triangular postocular spot, grayish-green face, whitish throat, limited streaking on breasts, reddish tones on wings and back. Don’t all of these apply to scruffy White-throated as well? To me the streaking on the back looks too fine for SWSP, it has white spots on the wing coverts, lacks any reddish tones in the crown. My vote is WTSP. But I have limited experience with either species so feel free to disregard. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Avery Posted December 20, 2022 Share Posted December 20, 2022 (edited) 4 minutes ago, Colton V said: Don’t all of these apply to scruffy White-throated as well? To me the streaking on the back looks too fine for SWSP, it has white spots on the wing coverts, lacks any reddish tones in the crown. My vote is WTSP. But I have limited experience with either species so feel free to disregard. The bill on the bird on the left is much thinner. SWSP for me. Giss is a huge factor for sparrows for me, since I try my best every year to see as many as I can. Edited December 20, 2022 by Avery 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colton V Posted December 20, 2022 Share Posted December 20, 2022 1 hour ago, Avery said: Giss is a huge factor for sparrows for me, since I try my best every year to see as many as I can. Yeah, I’m getting WTSP giss, but I trust your gut more. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DLecy Posted December 20, 2022 Share Posted December 20, 2022 Left bird is a Swamp Sparrow. 5 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Birds are cool Posted December 20, 2022 Share Posted December 20, 2022 I am on the Swamp Sparrow boat. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quiscalus quiscula Posted December 20, 2022 Share Posted December 20, 2022 I suppose Swamp Sparrow is also a good option, although I've never seen any in that kind of habitat. Just gave off a lot of WTSP vibes, but maybe it's just because I've being seeing so many of them lately. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quiscalus quiscula Posted December 20, 2022 Share Posted December 20, 2022 On a Swamp Sparrow I would expect the rufous coverts to be stronger and less blended, and you can barely see white spotting on the coverts which I believe only White-throated have, having scoured the Macaulay library for examples of this. It is not a Song Sparrow because the streaking is not thick and bold enough. I do not believe that the bill is significantly thinner than White-throated, comparing it to the bird on the right. We also don't see any appreciable size difference compared to the White-throated, despite Swampies being about an inch smaller. Additionally, I would expect more buffiness on the flanks. The placement of the triangular postocular spot did cause me some grief, but I have seen several WTSP also displaying a more triangular spot. So after some research and looking in my field guide, I am sticking with White-throated Sparrow for both birds. The wing and back patterning, especially the white spotting, seem conclusive to me. Sorry this post became so long, but I put quite a bit of work into researching this, so I hope you won't just skim over it. @Charlie Spencer any other angles? I don't know if we have anyone on this forum who specializes in sparrows. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Birds are cool Posted December 20, 2022 Share Posted December 20, 2022 30 minutes ago, Quiscalus quiscula said: On a Swamp Sparrow I would expect the rufous coverts to be stronger and less blended, and you can barely see white spotting on the coverts which I believe only White-throated have, having scoured the Macaulay library for examples of this. It is not a Song Sparrow because the streaking is not thick and bold enough. I do not believe that the bill is significantly thinner than White-throated, comparing it to the bird on the right. We also don't see any appreciable size difference compared to the White-throated, despite Swampies being about an inch smaller. Additionally, I would expect more buffiness on the flanks. The placement of the triangular postocular spot did cause me some grief, but I have seen several WTSP also displaying a more triangular spot. So after some research and looking in my field guide, I am sticking with White-throated Sparrow for both birds. The wing and back patterning, especially the white spotting, seem conclusive to me. Sorry this post became so long, but I put quite a bit of work into researching this, so I hope you won't just skim over it. @Charlie Spencer any other angles? I don't know if we have anyone on this forum who specializes in sparrows. Swamp Sparrow https://macaulaylibrary.org/asset/356778971 White-throated Sparrow https://macaulaylibrary.org/asset/389357121 Song Sparrow https://macaulaylibrary.org/asset/180217931/356778591 All of the white-throated Sparrow photos I have seen of any stage of life have yellow lores. I think that the 'white patch' on it's neck is caused by the angle. I am sticking with Swamp. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quiscalus quiscula Posted December 20, 2022 Share Posted December 20, 2022 6 minutes ago, Birds are cool said: Swamp Sparrow https://macaulaylibrary.org/asset/356778971 White-throated Sparrow https://macaulaylibrary.org/asset/389357121 Song Sparrow https://macaulaylibrary.org/asset/180217931/356778591 All of the white-throated Sparrow photos I have seen of any stage of life have yellow lores. I think that the 'white patch' on it's neck is caused by the angle. I am sticking with Swamp. On drab and scruffy birds such as this one, the yellow lores may be muted and obscured. I'm not sure what you mean by the white patch on its neck- the white throat is something that both Swamp and White-throated share. Also, this 7 minutes ago, Birds are cool said: Swamp Sparrow https://macaulaylibrary.org/asset/356778971 is a Song Sparrow. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Birds are cool Posted December 20, 2022 Share Posted December 20, 2022 28 minutes ago, Quiscalus quiscula said: On drab and scruffy birds such as this one, the yellow lores may be muted and obscured. I'm not sure what you mean by the white patch on its neck- the white throat is something that both Swamp and White-throated share. Also, this is a Song Sparrow. Wrong link, thanks. The white patch on Swamp Sparrows is less apparent than that of a White-throated. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quiscalus quiscula Posted December 20, 2022 Share Posted December 20, 2022 Just now, Birds are cool said: Wrong link, thanks. The white patch on Swamp Sparrows is less apparent than that of a White-throated. Again, scruffiness and the fact that this would be a tan-striped morph bird. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Avery Posted December 20, 2022 Share Posted December 20, 2022 1 hour ago, Quiscalus quiscula said: On a Swamp Sparrow I would expect the rufous coverts to be stronger and less blended, and you can barely see white spotting on the coverts which I believe only White-throated have, having scoured the Macaulay library for examples of this. It is not a Song Sparrow because the streaking is not thick and bold enough. I do not believe that the bill is significantly thinner than White-throated, comparing it to the bird on the right. We also don't see any appreciable size difference compared to the White-throated, despite Swampies being about an inch smaller. Additionally, I would expect more buffiness on the flanks. The placement of the triangular postocular spot did cause me some grief, but I have seen several WTSP also displaying a more triangular spot. So after some research and looking in my field guide, I am sticking with White-throated Sparrow for both birds. The wing and back patterning, especially the white spotting, seem conclusive to me. Sorry this post became so long, but I put quite a bit of work into researching this, so I hope you won't just skim over it. @Charlie Spencer any other angles? I don't know if we have anyone on this forum who specializes in sparrows. Compare the bills 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quiscalus quiscula Posted December 20, 2022 Share Posted December 20, 2022 9 minutes ago, Avery said: Compare the bills I did, and I'm not seeing a significant difference. 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Avery Posted December 20, 2022 Share Posted December 20, 2022 2 minutes ago, Quiscalus quiscula said: I did, and I'm not seeing a significant difference. Bird on the left has a thinner bill, with a straight mandible edge. Bird on the right has a thicker bill with a jagged line. Additionally, compare the supercilium to tan-striped birds. This bird has an obviously gray supercilium. Tan-stripes have a brownish-white, or tan, supercilium. Also, the gray nape/auricular patch, not sure what else to call it, is larger and cleaner on Swamp Sparrows, as this bird shows in comparison to the bird on the right. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quiscalus quiscula Posted December 20, 2022 Share Posted December 20, 2022 11 minutes ago, Avery said: Bird on the left has a thinner bill, with a straight mandible edge. Bird on the right has a thicker bill with a jagged line. Additionally, compare the supercilium to tan-striped birds. This bird has an obviously gray supercilium. Tan-stripes have a brownish-white, or tan, supercilium. Also, the gray nape/auricular patch, not sure what else to call it, is larger and cleaner on Swamp Sparrows, as this bird shows in comparison to the bird on the right. But what about the wing and back pattern and size difference? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Charlie Spencer Posted December 20, 2022 Author Share Posted December 20, 2022 (edited) 3 hours ago, Quiscalus quiscula said: @Charlie Spencer any other angles? Note the clear size difference in the second photo. Edited December 20, 2022 by Charlie Spencer 9 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blackburnian Posted December 20, 2022 Share Posted December 20, 2022 The left bird is 10000% a Swamp Sparrow. 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IKLland Posted December 20, 2022 Share Posted December 20, 2022 Swamp for me as well. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quiscalus quiscula Posted December 20, 2022 Share Posted December 20, 2022 I guess Swamp Sparrows don't like to follow the rules! I'll concede that that is one funny looking Swampie. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Charlie Spencer Posted December 20, 2022 Author Share Posted December 20, 2022 15 minutes ago, Quiscalus quiscula said: I guess Swamp Sparrows don't like to follow the rules! I'll concede that that is one funny looking Swampie. If it had looked more like the Swamps I've seen at this same location, I wouldn't have had to ask in the first place! I'm glad I wasn't the only one with doubts about this bird, and glad I was too tired to bother trying for myself. Thanks, everyone. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Bird Nuts Posted December 21, 2022 Share Posted December 21, 2022 On 12/19/2022 at 8:35 PM, Quiscalus quiscula said: Another dull tan-striped morph White-throated Sparrow I believe. Structure and back color look good, and the scruffy throat feathers are white. I assume it was about the same size? I could be wrong here as I haven't been able to find much information on this, but I don't think you can tell the morph of a winter White-throated. The spring is when the white-striped morphs start to show their white crown stripes. Please correct me if I'm wrong. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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