Does Ebird accept checklists with 0 species observed?

[dragon49]

I realize this isn't Ebird support but thought somebody here would have an answer.

I had a nearly one-hour nocturnal observation tonight where I didn't see or hear any birds.  Ebird Mobile accepted the checklist, and I can see it on my iPhone app, but it does not appear on my web version.  Not the most important thing in the world, but for the sake of science, I would like this to count, if they care.

I know Ebird is functioning right now, as I just submitted an incidental via the web, and it is recognized on the web.  Should I resubmit this 0-count list on the web, or leave it alone?

[Aaron]

I’m fairly certain that you can, but I can’t seem to find where I read that. As technically, it’s showing that you put in the effort to find birds and found none (which is the data ebird wants if it’s complete checklist). Personally, I wouldn’t submit a list with zero species as I don’t see the point (especially with a nocturnal checklist as there’s a very high chance you won’t find anything)—usually I’ll just delete the checklist as a whole. 

Checklists with only ‘spuhs’ technically show up as a checklist with zero species too.

[DLecy]

3 hours ago, dragon49 said:

I realize this isn't Ebird support but thought somebody here would have an answer.

I had a nearly one-hour nocturnal observation tonight where I didn't see or hear any birds.  Ebird Mobile accepted the checklist, and I can see it on my iPhone app, but it does not appear on my web version.  Not the most important thing in the world, but for the sake of science, I would like this to count, if they care.

I know Ebird is functioning right now, as I just submitted an incidental via the web, and it is recognized on the web.  Should I resubmit this 0-count list on the web, or leave it alone?

It does "count." I have a handful of checklists that I have submitted with zero species on them. All are nocturnal checklists where I am out listening for owls or other bird sounds but didn't hear anything. I am technically birding and in those instances, that is my primary purpose for being out at night. You should be able to see the checklist you are referencing under "My checklists" on eBird once you are on your computer. There is no need to resubmit.

[dragon49]

2 minutes ago, DLecy said:

It does "count." I have a handful of checklists that I have submitted with zero species on them. All are nocturnal checklists where I am out listening for owls or other bird sounds but didn't hear anything. I am technically birding and in those instances, that is my primary purpose for being out at night. You should be able to see the checklist you are referencing under "My checklists" on eBird once you are on your computer. There is no need to resubmit.

Got it.  I found the bug or feature.  I always look at my checklists from the My Ebird link.

https://ebird.org/myebird/US 

I then click on one of the checklists shown on the right in the "Latest checklists" category.  This 0 species checklist does not show up on the right side, however, if I navigate to the "manage my checklists" option on the left, I see it.  I actually did resubmit it with the same details and it showed up twice, so I deleted one of the entries.  

It is very important that these 0 observations checklists count, and I'm glad mine did.  So, it just looks like the Ebird database/web page building engine has some logic that hides these lists from the "Latest checklists" view, which is what caused me to believe that the checklist wasn't accepted and didn't count.

[Charlie Spencer]

Do you enter a zero for every species on the checklist for that date and location?  If you enter a zero only for some, how do you decide which ones?

Edited December 24, 2022 by Charlie Spencer

[chipperatl]

56 minutes ago, Charlie Spencer said:

Do you enter a zero for every species on the checklist for that date and location?  If you enter a zero only for some, how do you decide which ones?

From the app you submit with nothing entered, other than time/travel/location.  I did a couple during CBC

[dragon49]

One more minor update.  Ebird also hides the 0 species checklist from the Recent visits section of the hotspot page.  I assume local reviewers can see my checklist, but other than that, I am the only person who can.  Not a big deal, as long as it counts for the science.  If anybody spends some time a place and does not see any birds, especially if the trip was primarily for birding, then it's important for Ebird to process the data.

[DLecy]

4 hours ago, Charlie Spencer said:

Do you enter a zero for every species on the checklist for that date and location?  If you enter a zero only for some, how do you decide which ones?

What can we help you clarify here @Charlie Spencer?
 

You’re verging on excessive use of the “confused” reaction in this thread. 😂

[IKLland]

6 hours ago, Charlie Spencer said:

Do you enter a zero for every species on the checklist for that date and location?  If you enter a zero only for some, how do you decide which ones?

Okay, look. Here’s an example. 
 

You go out at night for 3 hours to watch/listen for owls. As one might expect sometimes, you don’t see or hear any, because owls are well, owls. However, birding WAS your primary purpose, and technically you did ID every bird you could, which was none. You know the start time, mileage, duration. You go into eBird to submit a list. You enter the correct start time, duration, and mileage. Then you hit that it WAS a complete checklist, because you did ID every bird you could. Then you submit the list, without reporting anything in the species area. You DON’T report 0 for everything, because leaving everything blank tells us the same thing, that you didn’t see it. 
 

Hopefully this helps clarify.

[Zoroark]

This brings up an interesting, if someone vain, question: does a zero-species checklist maintain your streak? For instance, there are people who may take an early morning flight east in the winter and spend all of the daylight hours in the air or in airports. They may spend 10 minutes at the crack of dawn by an airport window and observe zero birds. What about people who are inside a windowless office from before dawn until after dusk, and their break outside may yield no birds?

Edited December 24, 2022 by Zoroark

[Charlie Spencer]

1 hour ago, DLecy said:

What can we help you clarify here @Charlie Spencer?

@chipperatl and @IKLland clarified.  Thanks.

[Birds are cool]

1 hour ago, IKLland said:

Okay, look. Here’s an example. 
 

You go out at night for 3 hours to watch/listen for owls. As one might expect sometimes, you don’t see or hear any, because owls are well, owls. However, birding WAS your primary purpose, and technically you did ID every bird you could, which was none. You know the start time, mileage, duration. You go into eBird to submit a list. You enter the correct start time, duration, and mileage. Then you hit that it WAS a complete checklist, because you did ID every bird you could. Then you submit the list, without reporting anything in the species area. You DON’T report 0 for everything, because leaving everything blank tells us the same thing, that you didn’t see it. 
 

Hopefully this helps clarify.

Owls....

 

[DLecy]

1 hour ago, Zoroark said:

This brings up an interesting, if someone vain, question: does a zero-species checklist maintain your streak? For instance, there are people who may take an early morning flight east in the winter and spend all of the daylight hours in the air or in airports. They may spend 10 minutes at the crack of dawn by an airport window and observe zero birds. What about people who are inside a windowless office from before dawn until after dusk, and their break outside may yield no birds?

It does.
 

There have been instances where I have kept my streak alive (approaching 2,000 days) by using this method. Some days work and life get busy, and in the winter days are so much shorter. So, I’ll head outside at night and listen. Some nights I hear three species of owl, some nights nothing at all.

Edited December 24, 2022 by DLecy

[chipperatl]

2 hours ago, Zoroark said:

This brings up an interesting, if someone vain, question: does a zero-species checklist maintain your streak? For instance, there are people who may take an early morning flight east in the winter and spend all of the daylight hours in the air or in airports. They may spend 10 minutes at the crack of dawn by an airport window and observe zero birds. What about people who are inside a windowless office from before dawn until after dusk, and their break outside may yield no birds?

You hit the right airport and you’ll have House Sparrow in the terminal.  

[Charlie Spencer]

1 hour ago, chipperatl said:

You hit the right airport and you’ll have House Sparrow in the terminal.  

From inside the Columbia SC airport, gate 10, about two weeks ago, I had an Eastern Phoebe and an Eastern Bluebird on the perimeter fence.  I've picked up six or seven species on the property before while waiting on incoming flights.  Somehow it was approved as a hotspot but in my opinion, it doesn't merit the designation.

[chipperatl]

1 minute ago, Charlie Spencer said:

From inside the Columbia SC airport, gate 10, about two weeks ago, I had an Eastern Phoebe and an Eastern Bluebird on the perimeter fence.  I've picked up six or seven species on the property before while waiting on incoming flights.  Somehow it was approved as a hotspot but in my opinion, it doesn't merit the designation.

Ebird lifer House Sparrow…Detroit Airport.  😅

[Charlie Spencer]

1 minute ago, chipperatl said:

Ebird lifer House Sparrow…Detroit Airport.  😅

Definitely a more unusual location than Wal-mart or Lowe's.

[IKLland]

7 minutes ago, Charlie Spencer said:

Definitely a more unusual location than Wal-mart or Lowe's.

We should all keep a list of birds that we see from the plane out the window. I’m pretty sure I’ve had CANG at the 5,000 foot mark once. 

[DLecy]

I have seen birds inside Denver International Airport.

https://ebird.org/hotspot/L479835

[Peromyscus]

4 minutes ago, DLecy said:

I have seen birds inside Denver International Airport.

https://ebird.org/hotspot/L479835

I saw 3 House Sparrows inside McCarran International Airport (now Harry Reid International Airport) in Las Vegas when I was changing flights.

I also saw the shadow of a flying Rock Pigeon at that layover. Should that species go on an eBird checklist based on the shadow?

[chipperatl]

1 hour ago, DLecy said:

I have seen birds inside Denver International Airport.

https://ebird.org/hotspot/L479835

I should have clarified, my lifer House Sparrow were inside the terminal in Detroit.  Quite a few of them inside there.  

[DLecy]

57 minutes ago, Peromyscus said:

I saw 3 House Sparrows inside McCarraI also saw the shadow of a flying Rock Pigeon at that layover. Should that species go on an eBird checklist based on the shadow?

Now this is a question I have never ever heard before. 

[IKLland]

36 minutes ago, DLecy said:

Now this is a question I have never ever heard before. 

Same. I’m curious. 

[Peromyscus]

Maybe I'll figure out what time I was at McCarran/Reid back in 2011 and submit a checklist.

[The Bird Nuts]

15 hours ago, Charlie Spencer said:

Do you enter a zero for every species on the checklist for that date and location?  If you enter a zero only for some, how do you decide which ones?

Only enter a zero on a species if you were specifically looking for that species but didn't find it.