MWM Posted March 4 Share Posted March 4 Age old question, wasn't able to see the nail on the bill. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Birds are cool Posted March 4 Share Posted March 4 1. Is a Lesser Scaup. 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IKLland Posted March 4 Share Posted March 4 All Lesser Scaup. 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Charlie Spencer Posted March 4 Share Posted March 4 The two birds that we can see in profile show tall heads that peak more toward the rear than center or front. I agree those are Lesser. 8 hours ago, MWM said: wasn't able to see the nail on the bill. Bill nail isn't a reliable indicator anyway. 4 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Avery Posted March 4 Share Posted March 4 5 hours ago, Charlie Spencer said:  Bill nail isn't a reliable indicator anyway. It is for adult males. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RobinHood Posted March 5 Share Posted March 5 20 hours ago, Avery said: It is for adult males. I'm not sure it is quite that straightforward, but interested in other opinions. Lesser is very reliable for having a small neat nail but the nail (and the bill shape/size) on the Greater can vary quite a lot, not sure if it is an age thing. So I'm cautious when I see a bird with a relatively small nail, especially a poor view, and no other clear markers. This comes up regularly locally in the winter as Greater is expected but Lesser has to be reviewed. Just google male Greater Scaup images and lots of examples of birds with small nails. A bird with a large flared nail, no problem. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Avery Posted March 5 Share Posted March 5 2 hours ago, RobinHood said: I'm not sure it is quite that straightforward, but interested in other opinions. Lesser is very reliable for having a small neat nail but the nail (and the bill shape/size) on the Greater can vary quite a lot, not sure if it is an age thing. So I'm cautious when I see a bird with a relatively small nail, especially a poor view, and no other clear markers. This comes up regularly locally in the winter as Greater is expected but Lesser has to be reviewed. Just google male Greater Scaup images and lots of examples of birds with small nails. A bird with a large flared nail, no problem. If your Googling Greater Scaup, your likely getting a lot more than just Greater Scaup 😋  That aside, Lesser has the thin nail, with at most a slight flare. Greater has a wide, flared nail. I’m he amount of variation is pretty small, especially compared to other ID features like head shape. However, all this nail business goes out the window for me when the bird is not an adult male. There is likely some circumstances where it can be used for transitional birds or certain ages/sexes, but that level of intricacy is beyond me.  my autocorrect is going absolutely haywire. 2 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RobinHood Posted March 5 Share Posted March 5 45 minutes ago, Avery said: If your Googling Greater Scaup, your likely getting a lot more than just Greater Scaup 😋 Fair point, I should have said I looked at various sites including the Macaulay library for adult males only. I think all I was suggesting was that if you see an adult male Scaup with a small nail it may not be a Lesser, especially if you don't get a really good frontal view. One of the top rated Greater Scaup photos from Macaulay below. https://media.ebird.org/catalog?taxonCode=gresca&mediaType=photo&sort=rating_rank_desc Interesting topic as I'm always looking for additional markers, myself and an experienced birder I know recently concluded that fine/coarse barring is also not reliable. However, several of these somewhat unreliable markers together (head colour, nail size, barring) may be enough to swing it one way or the other. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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