Juvenile tree swallows?

[PaulK]

Hi, I'm wondering about these two swallows I saw today in Metro Vancouver. I had the first down as a rough-winged, because it looked overall brown to me, but there were dozens of tree swallows around and no other rough-winged. Looking at the photos I'm thinking it's got stark contrast on the head which makes it more likely to be a juvenile tree. The second bird was elsewhere at the hotspot, and although I don't have any good distinct photos it looks grey rather than brown, and there may be the pale line around the auriculars. Please let me know what you think.

#1

#2

[Birds are cool]

1. Northern rough-winged Swallow

2. Juvenile Tree Swallow

[Avery]

2 hours ago, Birds are cool said:

1. Northern rough-winged Swallow

2. Juvenile Tree Swallow

It’s early for any juv swallow. Adult female for me. 

[PaulK]

1 hour ago, Avery said:

It’s early for any juv swallow. Adult female for me. 

Right, of course, thank you! 

[AlexHenry]

2 hours ago, Avery said:

It’s early for any juv swallow. Adult female for me. 

Swallows arrive pretty early on the west coast, and where I am Tree and Barn overwinter. Late February and March is when a lot of the swallows arrive where I am - which would certainly give them enough time to have successfully bred by now.

[MichaelLong]

1 minute ago, AlexHenry said:

Swallows arrive pretty early on the west coast, and where I am Tree and Barn overwinter. Late February and March is when a lot of the swallows arrive where I am - which would certainly give them enough time to have successfully bred by now.

This 👆 here the Barn swallows have already fledged and some pairs are starting on their second brood. 

[Avery]

44 minutes ago, AlexHenry said:

Swallows arrive pretty early on the west coast, and where I am Tree and Barn overwinter. Late February and March is when a lot of the swallows arrive where I am - which would certainly give them enough time to have successfully bred by now.

All the way up in Vancouver?!? Man the west really is different. 
 

Either way, how was adult female ruled out?

Edited May 20 by Avery

[PaulK]

For what it's worth they were definitely feeding young in nest boxes

[AlexHenry]

14 minutes ago, Avery said:

All the way up in Vancouver?!? Man the west really is different. 
 

Either way, how was adult female ruled out?

No idea. Personally I can’t see much on that second swallow, I’d struggle to get that picture to species let alone age/sex it - though I totally believe it’s a Tree. Definitely agree the first is a Northern Rough-winged.

[AlexHenry]

17 minutes ago, Avery said:

All the way up in Vancouver?!? Man the west really is different. 
 

I haven’t spent enough time up in the Pacific Northwest to say for sure. Probably a bit later up there than CA. But even though cities like Seattle and Vancouver are very far north on paper, the low elevation and vicinity to the ocean are enough that snow or freezing temps are like, pretty unusual - the main push of spring migration is later, more similar to the east, because it’s still winter in the mountains - but breeding activities in coastal lowlands can start very early. California Thrashers will start nesting in November, and Anna’s Hummingbirds and Great Horned Owls will start in December/January. Allen’s Hummingbirds are one of our first spring migrants and start arriving in late January/February. Then swallows are pretty much our next spring migrant, in late February and March.

[blackburnian]

How is Violet Green being ruled out for 2? 

[PaulK]

5 hours ago, blackburnian said:

How is Violet Green being ruled out for 2? 

That's a very good question. Barn and Tree were ubiquitous at the location, and I only picked out one Violet Green. So definitely possible, but far less likely imo.