Flycatcher in Quebec

[Mark5]

8/30/23 at Jaque-Cartier National Park in Quebec.  Seems like Least or Alder are expected this time of year.

What do you think?

Thanks.

[AlexHenry]

The eye ring says Least to me but the primaries may be too long, more like Alder. Mostly I use vocalizations to distinguish these birds - even at this time of year they will often vocalize if you spend enough time with them. Even half-hearted vocalizations will be diagnostic

 

[RobinHood]

Alder for me (if more expected than Willow) - the primary projection, large bill and they can have a distinct eyering (although this one does look more typical of a Least).

[Avery]

I would lean Least, especially because when viewing the primary projection from this angle, it makes it look much longer. Plus that eyering. 

[AlexHenry]

And this is why I go by vocalizations 🤷‍♂️👍

[The Bird Nuts]

Big-headed and small-billed appearance makes me think Least also.

[RobinHood]

Happened to come across this photo I took in 2020 of an Alder - the eyering looks quite similar.

[RobinHood]

I meant to add a comment when I posted but got timed out.

In my somewhat limited experience I have found the following:

Least - almost always a very bold complete eyering.

Alder - somewhat variable but not uncommonly a fairly bold partial eyering (less distinct towards the eye).

Willow - eyering usually evident, but quite indistinct.

Probably not reliable for an ID but perhaps a factor.

Interested to hear from more experienced birders - @Avery@The Bird Nuts@AlexHenry

I try not to call on individual members here (they can always ignore me) but I am interested in this topic because of the usual Traill's dilemma.

[Avery]

I’ll chime in again, as I just got my copy of North American Flycatchers by Cin-Ty Lee!

In these photos, some marks can’t be used. The angle from the photo makes it difficult to truly gauge the primary projection, and to increase the difficulty, the PP of Least is small while Alder is medium, not long. Additionally, the tail is not held neatly, meaning we can’t discern the tail width (Least is thin, Alder is wide). The eye ring, to my eye, is bold, though the messy look which the book mentions could be a product of the bird overall being messy. 
 

Additonally, the book mentions the boldness of the wingbars, with Least having very bold wingbars, while Alder ranges from bold to dingy. The contrast between the upperparts and underparts is also mentioned as being stronger in Least, and the bill slimmer. These are all marks I am having trouble deciding between, either due to my being out of practice since spring, or from the photos giving me trouble. 

All this to say, my gut still says Least, but I could see this bird as either. 

[RobinHood]

1 hour ago, Avery said:

I’ll chime in again, as I just got my copy of North American Flycatchers by Cin-Ty Lee!

In these photos, some marks can’t be used. The angle from the photo makes it difficult to truly gauge the primary projection, and to increase the difficulty, the PP of Least is small while Alder is medium, not long. Additionally, the tail is not held neatly, meaning we can’t discern the tail width (Least is thin, Alder is wide). The eye ring, to my eye, is bold, though the messy look which the book mentions could be a product of the bird overall being messy. 
 

Additonally, the book mentions the boldness of the wingbars, with Least having very bold wingbars, while Alder ranges from bold to dingy. The contrast between the upperparts and underparts is also mentioned as being stronger in Least, and the bill slimmer. These are all marks I am having trouble deciding between, either due to my being out of practice since spring, or from the photos giving me trouble. 

All this to say, my gut still says Least, but I could see this bird as either.

Thanks Avery, some good info there. I wasn't particularly continuing the ID discussion for the thread bird as the consensus seems to be Least. It just got me looking at the eye ring in particular for the three species.

With this and the other markers you mentioned the issue, as it often is, seems to be variability. As an example the bird I posted here seems to have quite bold wingbars which as you note is more typical of a Least. I've also noticed the boldness of the eye ring on an Alder varies quite a bit.

Thanks again.