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AOS Proposals 2024


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I can’t imagine most/all of the splits proposed will go through, and I haven’t given a deep dive into the likelihood of any of these splits/lumps yet, but I do love me some armchair lifers. It’s the most “green” birding one can do.

I’ve been wanting to find a Vega gull for this exact reason.

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Cory's Shearwater and Red-shouldered Hawk are the only ones that would get me armchair birds, I think.

 

Burn with fire, toss in a volcano and Nuke from Orbit!!!!!!!!

2024-B-3: Treat Common Redpoll Acanthis flammea and Hoary Redpoll A. hornemanni as a single species

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I think the Redpoll lump will happen, it was a split vote in 2017 and there is now more evidence to suggest a lump. I assume the AOS will vote to align the taxonomy for old world species (Intermediate and Cattle Egret) which wouldn't affect ABA listers. The most likely splits that I see happening are Cory's/Scopoli's (easily field identifiable, breed in the same locations without interbreeding, split by other taxonomic authorities), Guatemalan Flicker (More genetically and morphologically different from NOFL then Gilded) and the Herring Gulls (Would align with old world taxonomy, and fairly clear genetic differences in the mess of Larus taxonomy) however it could end up having trouble passing due to the three voting options. I haven't read to much into the tropical proposals but the Squirrel Cuckoo seems somewhat likely based of reading the proposal. I don't see the RSHA or GWTE split happening anytime soon. I think the Brewster's Booby could happen in the future, but I doubt it will be accepted this cycle based off previous AOS decisions. Will be interesting to see what happens

Edited by Connor Cochrane
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33 minutes ago, chipperatl said:

Cory's Shearwater and Red-shouldered Hawk are the only ones that would get me armchair birds, I think.

 

Burn with fire, toss in a volcano and Nuke from Orbit!!!!!!!!

2024-B-3: Treat Common Redpoll Acanthis flammea and Hoary Redpoll A. hornemanni as a single species

How do you really feel about it?!

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21 hours ago, chipperatl said:

Cory's Shearwater and Red-shouldered Hawk are the only ones that would get me armchair birds, I think.

 

Burn with fire, toss in a volcano and Nuke from Orbit!!!!!!!!

2024-B-3: Treat Common Redpoll Acanthis flammea and Hoary Redpoll A. hornemanni as a single species

Is this a reflection on how much blood, sweat, and tears you put into getting a Hoary lifer?

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8 hours ago, SirVive said:

Is this a reflection on how much blood, sweat, and tears you put into getting a Hoary lifer?

Nope.  They were in the second flock of Redpolls I ever saw.  I just don’t like losing lifers for “science” that will/can change in a few years, with no consistency in reasoning.  

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50 minutes ago, chipperatl said:

I just don’t like losing lifers for “science” that will/can change in a few years, with no consistency in reasoning.  

Scientific reasoning is consistent in that conclusions change as new evidence is discovered.  To not change in the face of new evidence isn't science, it's tradition.

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3 minutes ago, Charlie Spencer said:

Scientific reasoning is consistent in that conclusions change as new evidence is discovered.  To not change in the face of new evidence isn't science, it's tradition.

I thought we were getting rid of tradition?

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43 minutes ago, chipperatl said:

Nope.  They were in the second flock of Redpolls I ever saw.  I just don’t like losing lifers for “science” that will/can change in a few years, with no consistency in reasoning.  

What is the alternative? Aren’t the proposals and taxonomic changes that the AOS deals with is a function of the foundation of our larger scientific understanding? Our current knowledge of living organisms is ever evolving, and we should always be examining what we assume to be true. 

I don’t like losing lifers at all, but, I can only see that if this were not the case, we would presumably be stuck in our understanding of [insert bird name] in [insert year]. I don’t want that.

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On 1/30/2024 at 12:37 PM, chipperatl said:

Cory's Shearwater and Red-shouldered Hawk are the only ones that would get me armchair birds, I think.

For me, Red-shouldered Hawk and Brown Booby. Oh, and the 3 Common Teals I have seen (one I found) in the east. The European/American Herring Gull split would net me an armchair world lifer.

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9 hours ago, chipperatl said:

I thought we were getting rid of tradition?

There's a time and place for tradition.  I find it's too often used as an shortvway if saying, 'This is what we’re used to and we don't want to change!"  See the bird names debate.

Respectfully, whether you or I gain or lose lifers is irrelevant to scientific advancement.  No harm is being done.

Edited by Charlie Spencer
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if everything goes through, my life list would have a net zero change with a Redpoll lump and Herring Gull split. For the Redpolls, I would wonder and hope that they would still classify them as different subspecies, either 4 (for the Greenland birds) or 2.

Edited by Avery
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