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This is a Merlin. Prairie Falcons have a different face pattern typically a bit scarcer streaking below, and have thin dark bars on a quite pale tail. The narrow white bars on a dark tail that you see here is a good mark for Merlin.

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Thanks gentlemen. This was from an iBird Photo Sleuth customer who submitted the photo to the app. Photo Sleuth was 71% sure it was a Merlin, but the customer disagreed and thought it was a Prairie Falcon. Its nice to know the app was right. 

Good or Bad Idea: Submit iBird Photo Sleuth Photos to the Help Me ID a Bird Forum?
BTW we are thinking about adding a feature to the app that allows the customer to submit the photo to the Help Me Identify a Bird forum if they disagree with the app's guess. I'm not sure if this will be a problem or not and the only way to find out is to just try it. We can always remove the feature. My concern is that the customers might overwhelm the forum with too many requests. Right now I don't think there are enough users for there to be this problem but if it happened we'd need to find a way to slow it down. One idea would be to charge a small fee for submitting a photo to the forum, and share the income among the experts who are volunteering their time. But that opens a huge can of worms and I'm not sure its a good idea. Any thoughts?

Dear Photo Sleuth,
 
Your software did not correctly identify my my bird photo. Mitch Waite Group has my permission to use the attached photo for training your neural network and other internal purposes; Mitch Waite Group may not use the photo for any other purpose. I represent and warrant that I either own the copyright for this photo or that I have permission from the copyright owner to submit it to Mitch Waite Group, and to grant these permissions.
 
Merlin, 71%
Eurasian Kestrel, 20%
Eurasian Hobby, 6%
 
Dear customer please add any comments below this line:
 
+I’m thinking this is a prairie falcon. -------
 
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16 minutes ago, Administrator said:

One idea would be to charge a small fee for submitting a photo to the forum, and share the income ...

Or just keep all of it to fund the site.

Regardless of compensation, I like the idea.  It has the potential to grow the membership.

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41 minutes ago, Charlie Spencer said:

Or just keep all of it to fund the site.

Regardless of compensation, I like the idea.  It has the potential to grow the membership.

Hey Charlie that's nice to hear, and what I would prefer...I don't expect it would amount to much income and so it be nice to apply it to paying for the site. I'm not going to belabor the point but we have to pay for licensing the software, hosting it on our new server and soon, to hire a technical administrator to deal with updates, technical issues that arise and setting up the forums which I am not finding the time to focus on.

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Posted (edited)

I think it's a good idea, and I think the time and effort to fairly compensate volunteers wouldn't be worthwhile, and I can't imagine it would ammount to very much for any individual. Also I would be concerned about people being a little too overeager to ID if there was a possibility of payment. Any fees could be use to run the site as Charlie Spencer suggests.

I would be surprised if the requests overwhelmed the site; in the "olden days" there were large numbers of IDs processed. But if that were to happen, a small fee might help to control that. I would also give the users advice to wait for two or three confirmations, since they won't always know who are the experts and who are the eager beginners. And even the experts make mistakes, so it's a good policy in general. I think our members would be eager to help out in this way. 

By the way, Bigfoot used to occasionally post requests like this, I think from iBird users maybe, and would clearly identify them as such. So if the photo sleuth requests were clearly identified, it might help people to be extra careful about their IDs and perhaps confirm more to give the Sleuth users more confidence in their results. Although in fact we generally don't lack confirmations!

Edited by Aveschapines
typos

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Posted (edited)
8 hours ago, Administrator said:

One idea would be to charge a small fee for submitting a photo to the forum, and share the income among the experts who are volunteering their time. But that opens a huge can of worms and I'm not sure its a good idea. Any thoughts?

I'm all for any money received for such services to be kept by the site to help with maintenance. Which brings me to ask, ''Is there a place where a person could send a small contribution?'' ...nothing earth shattering but every little bit might be helpful. 🙂

Edited by lonesome55dove

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1 hour ago, lonesome55dove said:

I'm all for any money received for such services to be kept by the site to help with maintenance. Which brings me to ask, ''Is there a place where a person could send a small contribution?'' ...nothing earth shattering but every little bit might be helpful. 🙂

If you’re serious about “sending a small contribution”, PM me and I’ll send you my address.

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2 hours ago, Aveschapines said:

By the way, Bigfoot used to occasionally post requests like this, I think from iBird users maybe, and would clearly identify them as such. So if the photo sleuth requests were clearly identified, it might help people to be extra careful about their IDs and perhaps confirm more to give the Sleuth users more confidence in their results. Although in fact we generally don't lack confirmations!

Thats a very good idea, identifying that the ID request comes from iBird Photo Sleuth. I was thinking today we could modify the app to simply display the forum inside the app when the user requested Get Expert ID Help. That will still require the user of the app to register before they can submit a photo, which is not very user friendly as it should be automatized within the app. But it would provide a filter of sorts so only serious users actually submit. How to tag the submission I am not so sure of. Another idea is to create a separate forum called iBird Help Me ID a Bird or similar.

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You could make an “expert forum” that requires admin approval to enter so people like me don’t sneak in and ID birds!!! 

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54 minutes ago, Administrator said:

Thats a very good idea, identifying that the ID request comes from iBird Photo Sleuth. I was thinking today we could modify the app to simply display the forum inside the app when the user requested Get Expert ID Help. That will still require the user of the app to register before they can submit a photo, which is not very user friendly as it should be automatized within the app. But it would provide a filter of sorts so only serious users actually submit. How to tag the submission I am not so sure of. Another idea is to create a separate forum called iBird Help Me ID a Bird or similar.

Could the app maybe automatically open a new post with a title like "iBird user help" or whatever? Not a programmer so I have no idea whether that's doable or realistic! I can't decide whether I think the separate forum is a good idea or not. 

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7 hours ago, Administrator said:

Thats a very good idea, identifying that the ID request comes from iBird Photo Sleuth. I was thinking today we could modify the app to simply display the forum inside the app when the user requested Get Expert ID Help. That will still require the user of the app to register before they can submit a photo, which is not very user friendly as it should be automatized within the app. But it would provide a filter of sorts so only serious users actually submit. How to tag the submission I am not so sure of. Another idea is to create a separate forum called iBird Help Me ID a Bird or similar.

Would it be feasible to route all iBird requests to a single pinned discussion?

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10 hours ago, TooFly said:

You could make an “expert forum” that requires admin approval to enter so people like me don’t sneak in and ID birds!!! 

Yes we could create an Expert Bird ID Forum requiring admin approval but that would create a host of issues including confusing people why there are two places to get an ID. And adding any kind of feature that requires admin approval adds more work to the admin's job. This might be a good idea if we charged for the ID but again until I see that Photo Sleuth buyers use the forum for help in large number thats a horse before the cart idea. 

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4 hours ago, Charlie Spencer said:

Would it be feasible to route all iBird requests to a single pinned discussion?

Routing the app requests is going to require using the Invision Community API and that means programming effort. Again I don't want to go down that road until I know the idea is popular among app users.

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4 hours ago, Charlie Spencer said:

It's a bit surprising there isn't already a 'Make a Donation' link somewhere in the headers.

To add such a button would require some serious thought about its purpose and a good amount of work defining where the money goes. Low priority right now and rather find other ways to bring in income than asking for donations.

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10 hours ago, Aveschapines said:

Could the app maybe automatically open a new post with a title like "iBird user help" or whatever? Not a programmer so I have no idea whether that's doable or realistic! I can't decide whether I think the separate forum is a good idea or not. 

Yes that can be done but it means getting into the API and I have a zillion other higher priorities for the programmers. Again the simple thing would be to just open the forum in a web view after the user presses a button called Get Expert Help. I will make an example and include screen captures so you all can see how it would work and so I can get an idea of the complexity.

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38 minutes ago, Administrator said:

Yes we could create an Expert Bird ID Forum requiring admin approval but that would create a host of issues including confusing people why there are two places to get an ID. And adding any kind of feature that requires admin approval adds more work to the admin's job. This might be a good idea if we charged for the ID but again until I see that Photo Sleuth buyers use the forum for help in large number thats a horse before the cart idea. 

Not to mention that it would require some kind of system to qualify people as experts. I'm not sure how that could be accurately done, and I am sure there would be complaints and drama.

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Posted (edited)
23 minutes ago, Administrator said:

Yes that can be done but it means getting into the API and I have a zillion other higher priorities for the programmers. Again the simple thing would be to just open the forum in a web view after the user presses a button called Get Expert Help. I will make an example and include screen captures so you all can see how it would work and so I can get an idea of the complexity.

No need! I believe you. Like I said I have no programming experience so I had no idea whether it would be simple and easy or very complex. Maybe a suggestion to add some key phrase to the title? SOME people might read it and follow the suggestion.

Edited by Aveschapines
typo

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