Another goose question.

[Birding Boy 662]

Hi, this goose was seen today in S.E. Michigan, It seemed tiny when, possibly a little bit bigger than the mallards that were swimming around with it. I'm wondering if this is a really small Canada goose Subspecies or possibly a cackling goose? Thanks in advance for any oppinions! 

[Kevin 2,100]

Great photos!

Come to north central TX and you can American Kestrel off of your bucket list. Right now there is one between every other power poll.

[Kevin 2,100]

Looks like a Canada to me. But wait for the experts though.

[Birding Boy 662]

Thanks! He was sitting pretty still and didn't seem that concerned that I was watching him. 

Yeah, hoping to convince my parents to maybe take a trip down there someday. Oh well, hopefully I'll find a kestrel next summer!

[Charlie Spencer 2,277]

16 minutes ago, Kevin said:

Great photos!

Come to north central TX and you can American Kestrel off of your bucket list. Right now there is one between every other power poll.

Ditto central SC at the moment.  Here's one of the three I past yesterday on the 17-mile drive home.

[Birding Boy 662]

😤All I see around here on the roadsides are Red tailed hawks! Lucky!

[AlexHenry 901]

That bird does have a short-looking neck, but the bill and head shape definitely do not look like a Cackler.

You may want to read this. It gives no real concrete answers but some good food for thought: https://www.sibleyguides.com/2014/12/cackling-ish-geese/ He seems to think that hybridization could account for some of the bird showing rather intermediate features.

There is also the possibility of "Lesser" Canada Geese (parvipes), I don't think they would be expected in Michigan, but one could show up. It would be a very nice rarity though.

I would definitely not call that a Cackling Goose. I would hesitantly call it a Canada Goose, but I agree it seems weird.

[akiley 1,152]

Yes, that's a small migrant Canada Goose. Cackling Geese have very tiny bills.

[AlexHenry 901]

By the way @Birding Boy I used to live in Washtenaw County so if you want any advice on birding spots in Michigan I'd be happy to oblige.

Edited November 22, 2019 by AlexHenry

[Birding Boy 662]

Thanks for the help guys! Yeah, just seemed a bit off to me when I first saw it. A rare subspecies is pretty cool, I'll put it as parvipes on  ebird.

5 minutes ago, AlexHenry said:

By the way @Birding Boy I used to live in Washtenaw County so if you want any advice on birding spots in Michigan I'd be happy to oblige. 

Awesome! Yeah, I've only been really birding for a couple months, so I'm still learning about all the good places to go 😁

[AlexHenry 901]

I think parvipes might have been merged into "canadensis Group" on eBird as it is something of a continuum. I was just suggesting parvipes as a possibility. I think you should probably enter it into eBird as "canadensis Group", if possible. 

I'm not certain on this. A lot of this stuff is not very well parsed out yet, scientifically speaking. Steve Mlodinow is one of the Canada/Cackling subspecies experts. Here is something he wrote: https://groups.google.com/forum/#!topic/cobirds/MzmyXpqwEwY If you really want to dive down the rabbit hole, you can find his email on some of the papers he has written and get in touch with him.

Edited November 22, 2019 by AlexHenry

[Birding Boy 662]

Yes, I found that out on eBird, I just submitted it as canadensis group. 

Thanks for all the help and useful write-ups on the subject. I'm outa likes but I really appreciate it!

[akiley 1,152]

1 hour ago, AlexHenry said:

I think parvipes might have been merged into "canadensis Group" on eBird as it is something of a continuum. I was just suggesting parvipes as a possibility. I think you should probably enter it into eBird as "canadensis Group", if possible. 

I'm not certain on this. A lot of this stuff is not very well parsed out yet, scientifically speaking. Steve Mlodinow is one of the Canada/Cackling subspecies experts. Here is something he wrote: https://groups.google.com/forum/#!topic/cobirds/MzmyXpqwEwY If you really want to dive down the rabbit hole, you can find his email on some of the papers he has written and get in touch with him.

That is exactly correct about eBird. There's really no clear answer to what parvipes is. Steve is definitely the guy for Canada/Cackling Goose subspecies.