simonthetanner Posted February 1, 2020 Share Posted February 1, 2020 Scaups are tough for me, and this one has had me waffling back and forth between greater and lesser for a week. This was taken in south-western OR a few days ago (Grants Pass area) at my favorite birding park. We get both Greaters and Lesser wintering here, though the former is usually outnumbered about 6-1 by the later and relatively uncommon. The ruffled "tuft" of feathering at the back of the heard should indicate Lesser, but the large bill and forehead shape just give me Greater vibes. There were about 6 Lessers there that were clear to ID, but this one has perplexed me. Anyone able to help me settle? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phalarope713 Posted February 1, 2020 Share Posted February 1, 2020 I'd say Lesser based on lack of black nail at bill tip and peaked crown. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Inastrangeland Posted February 2, 2020 Share Posted February 2, 2020 Funny...this isn't going to help. I'm leaning greater because of the huge bill and cheeks. Don't feel bad for waffling, this has characteristics of both. Good discussion bird. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
akiley Posted February 2, 2020 Share Posted February 2, 2020 Bill looks fairly wide, no? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tony Leukering Posted February 2, 2020 Share Posted February 2, 2020 This is an immature, so head shape is suspect. However, I'd go with Lesser. I assume that it was actively diving, yes? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
simonthetanner Posted February 2, 2020 Author Share Posted February 2, 2020 1 hour ago, Tony Leukering said: This is an immature, so head shape is suspect. However, I'd go with Lesser. I assume that it was actively diving, yes? Yes, it was diving actively. I got these shots about a minute apart during a short (about five minute) break it took from diving, when it was meandering across the pond to rejoin the Lesser Scaup flock; but except for that, it spent most of its time under water. I was in the rain half an hour trying to decide what it was, but really only got that one opportunity to study it for more than a few seconds at a time. I'm actually relieved to know it's actually a legitimately challenging scaup, and not just me! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
simonthetanner Posted February 2, 2020 Author Share Posted February 2, 2020 11 hours ago, Phalarope713 said: I'd say Lesser based on lack of black nail at bill tip and peaked crown. It doesn't show on these shots, but it did have a black nail tip. It's obviously not an especially pronounced one, but it's there. I can look for a shot that shows it if it'd help. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
simonthetanner Posted February 3, 2020 Author Share Posted February 3, 2020 So I believe I found the same scaup again today, feeding oddly enough in a fly casting pond at the same park from a week ago. Conditions were better, and I was able to get a couple closer photos. A lot of things about this scaup are still inconclusive to me, but that head profile sure looks like greater and the bill is quite broad. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Charlie Spencer Posted February 3, 2020 Share Posted February 3, 2020 I don't care what it is, the second shot is terrific. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
simonthetanner Posted February 4, 2020 Author Share Posted February 4, 2020 17 hours ago, Charlie Spencer said: I don't care what it is, the second shot is terrific. 🤣 The look is certainly priceless! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tony Leukering Posted February 5, 2020 Share Posted February 5, 2020 Lesser https://cowyebird.blogspot.com/2018/02/greater-scaup-ebird-problem-child.html 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
simonthetanner Posted February 6, 2020 Author Share Posted February 6, 2020 5 hours ago, Tony Leukering said: Lesser https://cowyebird.blogspot.com/2018/02/greater-scaup-ebird-problem-child.html That is a *very* informative article, thank you. The scaup in the later case-study images seems to be a comparable example to the one here. So if I am following correctly, the argument for Lesser would be a somewhat shallow angle of the jowls meeting the head visible in the frontal shot? That's certainly a new field mark to me, but I can kind of see that now that I'm re-comparing to Sibley's scaup diagrams. What still confuses me when looking at those drawings though is how slender the depicted Lesser's head is compared to the Greater. Based simply on Sibley's and without considering the angles, I would have thought the head was too broad for Lesser. Is it fair to say that the Sibley's comparison is a bit exaggerated for emphasis? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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