Charlie Spencer Posted March 11, 2020 Author Share Posted March 11, 2020 2 hours ago, RobinHood said: My $0.01 - I won't annoy you any more. You're not annoying me in the least. I'm trying to avoid annoying anyone else! 2 hours ago, RobinHood said: My finding was that when using a fairly wide range zoom lens like this one the exposure settings change too quickly for M mode to be practical - you need to be concentrating on the bird not exposure settings. Please try S mode (aperture is not as critical with a small sensor camera) with a default of1/500 (easily adjusted to suit conditions with the large rear wheel) and auto ISO with an upper limit of 3200 (I use 6400 but shoot raw). I know 'bridge' units are compromises, and I don't expect NatGeo results. I going to stick with trying M through the weekend but as you noted, I'm beginning to think other modes may be bettter suited for me. Let's remember the discussion started about the use of 'Sport' mode, which I've since found less satisfactory than S, A, or even auto. I don't know why I'm reluctant to set the ISO above 400 or so. I got very grainy results above that point, although I haven't tried it since I started playing with the other settings. I'll revisit it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RobinHood Posted March 11, 2020 Share Posted March 11, 2020 3 hours ago, Charlie Spencer said: I don't know why I'm reluctant to set the ISO above 400 or so. I got very grainy results above that point, although I haven't tried it since I started playing with the other settings. I'll revisit it. I know, I know, that was supposed to be my last post however....... ....in my experience an underexposed photo with a modest ISO setting usually looks far noisier/grainier than a correctly exposed photo with a much higher ISO number. Definitely over and out and good luck on your next outing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Charlie Spencer Posted March 11, 2020 Author Share Posted March 11, 2020 44 minutes ago, RobinHood said: an underexposed photo with a modest ISO setting usually looks far noisier/grainier than a correctly exposed photo with a much higher ISO number. If you'll click my Pileated avatar and look at my profile background, that ISO 100, under-exposed, first light of dawn Great Blue Heron is my favorite photo by far. The reduction as background doesn't do it justice. At full size you can see the fish in its bill and the water droplets flying from its wingtips. Sure, it could have been much better, but it captured the moment exactly. I look at it and I'm back in the swamp, seeing it flying over, suddenly banking hard left into a Gannet-like dive I didn't know herons could pull off, stabbing before it ever touched down, pushing off, and spreading its wings like the Angel of Death. I wouldn't trade that shot for the Mona Lisa. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mossyhorn Posted March 12, 2020 Share Posted March 12, 2020 I took this photo in manual mode o a rainy day. The ISO was set at 2000, shutter speed was a risky 160, and the aperture was F/8. I was using an F/4, 300mm lens with a 2x extender, so having to shoot at F/8 was not the best for these conditions. There is more noise than I'd like, but I'm not afraid to shoot at up to 2500 ISO if necessary. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Bird Nuts Posted March 12, 2020 Share Posted March 12, 2020 That's another difference between budget point-and-shoots/bridge cameras and DSLRs. My DSLR has much less noise than my point-and-shoots at higher ISOs. Or at least the noise isn't as annoying. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lonestranger Posted March 12, 2020 Share Posted March 12, 2020 11 hours ago, Charlie Spencer said: But it definitely isn't a case of 'set for the day and forget it'. Okay, I admit that I might have exaggerated a bit there. The theory is to set a base exposure using a mid-tone subject, something that's not bright or dark. When you change your aim to something that is brighter or darker than your base line, it will appear brighter or darker in your photo but hopefully still look natural, mostly, and not too far on either end of the baseline. You didn't end up taking more photos of black cats in a coal mine, did you? 😁 If you want your dark areas to be as bright as the the baseline shot, which admittedly you'll want to do at times, you just have to turn the dial a bit. Knowing when and how much to turn the dial is something that only practice can really teach, but it sounds like you're already picking up on that since you've been monitoring your meter and checking results as you go. You can read a lot of valuable tips on many websites, and I did, but I still don't know what I do wrong to ruin a picture until after I've already ruined the picture. Sometimes I find out my shutter speed was too slow because the bird turned it's head a bit, other times I might realize that I could have lowered my ISO and eliminated some of the graininess, quite often I wonder if the photo would have been better if I did this or that before I pushed the shutter button. Photography is one of those things in life where we often get the test before the lesson. Don't give up on it. Making mistakes is all part of the learning process and since they don't cost anything with today's cameras...I won't charge you the $0.02 because of the mistake you made by listening to me. 🤪 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RobinHood Posted March 12, 2020 Share Posted March 12, 2020 (edited) Just as an example and since we are talking photos for ID purposes only the shot below was taken at around 8.00am at the end of last September on a cloudy day with the bird deep in the shrubbery (the photo does not reflect how dark it actually was). The bird was really active, typical Redstart, so I needed 1/500 and ended up with ISO 51,200. Yes it was a DSLR and I have applied some noise removal but for a smaller sensor camera an ISO up to at least 1600 or 3200 is worth considering for these types of conditions. In-camera processing has improved tremendously over the past few years including noise removal. Edited March 12, 2020 by RobinHood 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RobinHood Posted March 12, 2020 Share Posted March 12, 2020 Oh dear, I think I am morphing quickly into a cranky old man (good thing I am the only one on this forum) - as proof my son hits 50 this weekend. Charlie, today was a pretty good example of what you can be up against with wildlife/bird photography. This was a beautiful day for Southern Ontario at this time of year - 8C (guessing 45F) and sun all day, absolutely no change in lighting. Two photos below under exactly the same conditions. Photo 1. Trumpeter out in the open - camera was already set at 1/640 and F10 with auto ISO - camera selected ISO 100. Photo 2. Muskrat somewhat in the shade - same shutter speed and aperture - camera selected ISO 7200. This is a difference of 6.5 EVs (Exposure Values), or full aperture/shutter speed increments (requiring 1/8 second rather than 1/640 if sticking to ISO 100) and may explain what you were finding when you were trying to balance exposure in the manual mode. For the second photo I was also shooting a Mink (a particular favourite of mine) at the same time in the background. It was finding a meal (a mouse based on the tail hanging out of its mouth), eating it and then cleaning itself on a tree branch, so auto ISO allowed me to jump between the subjects. If you are "focused" on just one subject in constant lighting conditions then M mode is certainly viable and provides more control. However, if you are out on the trails and want to be ready for whatever comes along ................ Definitely my last post on this thread, I will never come back, honestly. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kevin Posted March 12, 2020 Share Posted March 12, 2020 On 3/11/2020 at 7:32 AM, RobinHood said: My last post on this topic Charlie, honestly. My $0.01 - I won't annoy you any more. Something about that sounds familiar... 59 minutes ago, RobinHood said: Definitely my last post on this thread, I will never come back, honestly. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Charlie Spencer Posted March 13, 2020 Author Share Posted March 13, 2020 (edited) @RobinHood, I don’t know why you think you’re annoying anyone. All of your posts have been on-topic and offered useful advice. Ditto @lonestranger and others. Edited March 13, 2020 by Charlie Spencer 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kevin Posted March 13, 2020 Share Posted March 13, 2020 (edited) @RobinHood Your definitely not annoying me, and do not think anybody else. You posts have been helpful to me. Edited March 13, 2020 by Kevin Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mossyhorn Posted March 13, 2020 Share Posted March 13, 2020 I rely on the triangle of light. It's really no more complicate than that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Charlie Spencer Posted March 20, 2020 Author Share Posted March 20, 2020 (edited) I swear I am never coming out of 'P' mode again. the camera picked ISO-100, f5.5, 1/800. Fit to screen: Crop of actual size. Edited March 20, 2020 by Charlie Spencer 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Charlie Spencer Posted July 4, 2020 Author Share Posted July 4, 2020 (edited) On 3/10/2020 at 9:12 PM, lonestranger said: Try this Charlie. Set your ISO to 400, set your aperture to f/5.9(your largest aperture at max zoom), and set your shutter speed to 1/500, and then take a test shot and review it on your display screen. Increase your shutter speed if it's too bright and take the same shot over again and review it, repeat this until your test shot looks the right brightness. Reverse the process and decrease your shutter speed if your test shot comes up too dark. Gods only know why I keep beating my head on this wall, but I've set this day aside to figure this out no matter how much Diet Pepsi it takes. This morning I started with these settings. My first shot was as underexposed as possible. I had to drop the shutter speed all the way down to 1/8 to get the meter centered. As expected, the results had some blur. I then tried setting the ISO to the max 3200. That let me speed the shutter up to 1/60, but the results were still blurry. I'm beginning to think this camera isn't 'sensitive' enough to use at certain hours of the day. I do most of my 'serious' birding relatively early in the day, although lately I'm having a tough time getting shots I'm happy with at any hour. Edited July 4, 2020 by Charlie Spencer Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RobinHood Posted July 4, 2020 Share Posted July 4, 2020 (edited) 1 hour ago, Charlie Spencer said: I'm beginning to think this camera isn't 'sensitive' enough to use at certain hours of the day. Unfortunately this may be the case. Because our eyes adjust to the ambient lighting it is not always apparent how dark it is in the morning and evening. The smaller the sensor the worse the performance in low lighting. The move to higher MP sensors, reducing the size of the pixels, also doesn't help as big pixels are better for light gathering. I'm a little surprised your maximum ISO setting is 3200 although 6400 would probably be the practical limit anyway, but this would give you 1/125 in your example, possibly enough to give you a usable photo, certainly for ID purposes. Good luck with your testing. I think you are on the right track and finding the limitations of the camera (which cannot be over ridden by the mode selection). You can't fight physics. @Kevin, I know, I know!! PS. Happy Fourth of July to those south of the border. Edited July 4, 2020 by RobinHood 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kevin Posted July 4, 2020 Share Posted July 4, 2020 12 minutes ago, RobinHood said: @Kevin, I know, I know!! Did I miss something or did you tag the wrong person? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RobinHood Posted July 4, 2020 Share Posted July 4, 2020 12 minutes ago, Kevin said: Did I miss something or did you tag the wrong person? See seven posts above ( I have no self control). I thought I would get in before you did but seems there was no need 🙂. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Charlie Spencer Posted July 4, 2020 Author Share Posted July 4, 2020 (edited) So I used the 'Reset' option and put all settings back the way they were out of the box. I left ISO to 'Auto', 'Auto Focus' to '! area' (single point), 'Auto Focus Style' to Single / Still., and 'Metering Mode' to center. I set the dial to 'Programmed', zoomed all the way out, and checked the exposure. Everything looked good, so ... I'm content with these. I think the Hummie is about as frozen as one will get shooting unprepared in an auto mode with no time to play with shutter speed. Edited July 4, 2020 by Charlie Spencer 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kevin Posted July 4, 2020 Share Posted July 4, 2020 10 hours ago, RobinHood said: See seven posts above ( I have no self control). I thought I would get in before you did but seems there was no need 🙂. Oh well... I still don't understand. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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