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Hi- Connecticut has an exceptional record of 35 Greater White-fronted Geese at the moment. We are looking for input on subspecies, as to Greenland or American/gambelli. 

Here are a bunch of eBird lists:

 
 
 
 
 
 
We are leaning towards gambelli based on the huge flock (Greenland is still a vagrant),mainly pink or pale orange bills, especially at the base, contesting with orange legs, thinner, less chocolate brown necks and head, thinner necks, broader whiteish fringing on the upperparts versus narrow and clearly gray, and broad white flank stripe.
 
Thanks!
 

 

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None of them look like typical Greenlands to me.

19 minutes ago, akiley said:

We are leaning towards gambelli based on the huge flock (Greenland is still a vagrant),mainly pink or pale orange bills, especially at the base, contesting with orange legs, thinner, less chocolate brown necks and head, thinner necks, broader whiteish fringing on the upperparts versus narrow and clearly gray, and broad white flank stripe.

I just have to say, that's one of the most concise yet thorough descriptions of the differences of those two ssp. that I've ever seen. I looked at the entire flock and none of the birds appear to have bright orange bills and largely dark brown bodies. If you train your eye to look at all of those marks at once, typical Greenlands are surprisingly distinctive.

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5 hours ago, akandula said:

None of them look like typical Greenlands to me.

I just have to say, that's one of the most concise yet thorough descriptions of the differences of those two ssp. that I've ever seen. I looked at the entire flock and none of the birds appear to have bright orange bills and largely dark brown bodies. If you train your eye to look at all of those marks at once, typical Greenlands are surprisingly distinctive.

Thanks so much! American is the opinion of almost everyone I have asked. 

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Why "American," when there are multiple names subspecies in the Americas? I don't want to get into the acceptability of Tule Goose as a subspecies, but since it's named....

From the BNA account:

"

Subspecies

Only 2 subspecies breeding in North America are recognized by American Ornithologists' Union (American Ornithologists' Union 1957😞 A. a. frontalis breeds from w. and nw. Alaska across n. Canada; larger, darker A. a. gambeli (Tule Goose) restricted to vicinity of Cook Inlet, AK. Latter has been referred to as A. a. elgasi (Delacour and Ripley 1975); scientific name remains in contention (R. Banks pers. comm.). A. a. flavirostris slightly larger and darker than A. a. frontalis; A. a. albifrons is similar in appearance to A. a. frontalis, but smaller (Cramp and Simmons 1977). Breeding-ground limits of A. a. albifrons and A. a. frontalis in ne. Asia (Kolyma River Highlands) poorly documented. No Nearctic band recoveries in Siberia, or Palearctic recoveries in North America.

Nomenclatural history reviewed by Banks (Banks 1983a). Much confusion; current range of subspecies incongruent with origin of type specimens. We use A. a. frontalis for smaller form and A. a. gambeli (spelling following recommendation of R. Banks) for larger form (American Ornithologists' Union 1957).

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Posted (edited)
16 minutes ago, Tony Leukering said:

Why "American," when there are multiple names subspecies in the Americas? I don't want to get into the acceptability of Tule Goose as a subspecies, but since it's named....

From the BNA account:

"

Subspecies

Only 2 subspecies breeding in North America are recognized by American Ornithologists' Union (American Ornithologists' Union 1957😞 A. a. frontalis breeds from w. and nw. Alaska across n. Canada; larger, darker A. a. gambeli (Tule Goose) restricted to vicinity of Cook Inlet, AK. Latter has been referred to as A. a. elgasi (Delacour and Ripley 1975); scientific name remains in contention (R. Banks pers. comm.). A. a. flavirostris slightly larger and darker than A. a. frontalis; A. a. albifrons is similar in appearance to A. a. frontalis, but smaller (Cramp and Simmons 1977). Breeding-ground limits of A. a. albifrons and A. a. frontalis in ne. Asia (Kolyma River Highlands) poorly documented. No Nearctic band recoveries in Siberia, or Palearctic recoveries in North America.

Nomenclatural history reviewed by Banks (Banks 1983a). Much confusion; current range of subspecies incongruent with origin of type specimens. We use A. a. frontalis for smaller form and A. a. gambeli (spelling following recommendation of R. Banks) for larger form (American Ornithologists' Union 1957).

I was using "American" to refer to the North America breeding forms, specifically gambelli/frontalis in comparison to Greenland. gambelli/frontalis may be a better way to word the question. What I'm asking is are they Greenland (flav) or not?

Edited by akiley

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