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Two Hawks,Please assist with ID


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3 minutes ago, Tony Leukering said:

Both individuals are referable to the same species.

 

Are these types of responses suppose to be helpful?...Or is it just an opportunity for you to frustrate those of us without your knowledge, and/or those of us that don't have the desire to become as knowledgable as you? Seriously though, do you feel ALL birders should have to learn how to ID birds to the same extent as you before they're worthy of a direct answer? 

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5 minutes ago, lonestranger said:

 

Are these types of responses suppose to be helpful?...Or is it just an opportunity for you to frustrate those of us without your knowledge, and/or those of us that don't have the desire to become as knowledgable as you? Seriously though, do you feel ALL birders should have to learn how to ID birds to the same extent as you before they're worthy of a direct answer? 

No. People learn best when they figure things out for themselves. Look in your field guide and look for raptor species with dark and light morphs that, as adults, have a wide, white tail band (visible on the dark bird) and that has red barring below on light morphs. There's only one reasonable solution to these birds, given the location.

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2 minutes ago, Tony Leukering said:

No. People learn best when they figure things out for themselves.

So you DO think that we should all learn the same method as you use. Read a field guide and memorize everything in it, range maps, subtle plumage variations, behaviour, etc. :classic_unsure:  Thanks for your input but I think I will learn from those that include an answer with their helpful tips. You should try it sometime, an answer and how they got it seems to work for most everyone else.

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30 minutes ago, Tony Leukering said:

No. People learn best when they figure things out for themselves. Look in your field guide and look for raptor species with dark and light morphs that, as adults, have a wide, white tail band (visible on the dark bird) and that has red barring below on light morphs. There's only one reasonable solution to these birds, given the location.

Not everyone who posts here is interested in becoming a lifetime birder.  Some people just want an answer.  They may ask once or twice and never show up again.

Take loonswan, for example.  This person posts an average of every six weeks.  He or she isn't likely to buy a field guide, although he may be included to surf over to AAB or Macaulay.

We get a number of nature photographers too.  They want to know the subject of their latest great image so they can tag it.  They don't necessarily care beyond that.

I can sometimes appreciate the level of detail you provide but to borrow from our fishing friends, you've got to set the hook first.  Remember your audience; we're mostly general birders, not students in Ornithology 301.  Answers that don't explicitly include an ID may not be the best way to do that.  (Correcting grammar and spelling is definitely a good way to run people off.  Nobody posts wanting an English grade.  Breaking down 'immature' vs. 'juvenile' is one thing; 'there' vs. 'they're' is another.)

Edited by Charlie Spencer
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@Tony Leukering, let's not overlook the number of tourists from other countries who come to this site.  We often get posts from people who came to North America, took 256 gigabytes of photos, and are now home trying to ID what they shot.  They're not going to buy a NA field guide to tell an Eastern Bluebird from a Western, birds they'll probably never see again.  

Edited by Charlie Spencer
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I just wanted to say this is a free forum and as such, everyone is free to answer the questions however they choose to. Some people may give the answer without any additional comments and some go into great detail and some ask questions back first and others make you work a little harder to help you find the answer out yourself. I appreciate everyone's contributions and respect that they can give their contribution anyway they see fit. Some people may post a question wanting the straight answer but some don't. I've seen many people ask back what is the rationale that was used behind forming a positive ID. Also depending on what is going on in our own lives we will change how we reply. Some days I may give a straight answer and on another days I may go into much more detail if I have time and if I feel like it. In most cases all you have to do is wait and someone will post the type of answer you are looking for :).

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